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You are probably right regards this post to me as well as the previous one. But in this world many ideas,principles and causes are supported or not supported based on the real or perceived qualities or characteristics of the promoters or presenters. If at a certain point those presenters or promoters are perceived to be malcontents or dissenters then one has to step back and evaluate the "program".

I have done this and find that the "principles" I supported in common with many of you are no longer as important as I once thought they were. In fact,many of them were really out of step with scripture,which must never be contradicted by "tradition".

My decreasing empathy and respect forced me to step beck an apply the "cui bono" to some positions and issues,and the result was a lessening of support for the hard Traditional positions and an increased understating and support for John Paul II and the Magisterium.

So I guess I should say thankyou to all of you.

"I have done this and find that the "principles" I supported in common with many of you are no longer as important as I once thought they were. In fact,many of them were really out of step with scripture,which must never be contradicted by "tradition"."

That's what I meant when I said that you may not have originally grasped the principle, because to me and I'm sure to ultima and most of the others, looks roughly something like this if put super-simply:

Veritas, conversion of sinners, salvation of souls.

"My decreasing empathy and respect forced me to step beck an apply the "cui bono" to some positions and issues,and the result was a lessening of support for the hard Traditional positions and an increased understating and support for John Paul II and the Magisterium."

That's a fancy way of saying "losing focus".

If the Church is a she, and if the magisterium is mistakenly made out to be people or persons, then ecclesiastical liberalism starts looking a lot like the bride of Christ getting sweettalked into being unfaithful.

So I guess I should say thankyou to all of you.

I think you should be seeking to find and align with principle instead of with people.

In other words, your position is nothing more than this:

"I perceive trads as being negative and gloomy. The pope, on the other hand, seems positive and happy. Therefore, he must be on to something which the trads are blind to."

That's really all it consists of in a nutshell. That's it. It's based on emotion and not on principle.

I say that they're not, and he's not.

But he's still my pontiff, the trads are still Catholic.

Figuring as traditional Catholicism is the only Catholicism there really is, only one person's going to be moving, and that's you, whether for good or for ill.