Posted on 02/22/2005 12:46:48 PM PST by Clint N. Suhks
Not sure I follow that statement. What wise men?
Show me the quote by Jesus on homosexuality.
So do you beleive that if the words were not direct quotes of Jesus that the rest of the Bible is not of God?
Redemptor Hominis,written in 1979,as I recall.
Don't recall that in the scripture.
It's been fun guys but I've gotta go. My kids get up early and are pretty demanding. And, I can hear one of them waking up as I am typing.
Thanks for the enlightenment.
love Him - live in Him
"If the Pope decided tomorrow that homosexuality and abortion was fine, would Catholics accept it as truth from God?"
Most conservative Catholics would accept the Pope's word. Traditionalists would not--since they do not make the Pope a god, but consider him the servant of Tradition. Something like this has already happened. For two thousand years the Catholic Church has taught that capital punishment is morally appropriate as a punishment for grave criminal offenses like murder or treason. Only JPII has a different perspective--and has used doublespeak to push it. Now Catholics are following his lead--rationalizing his perspective which is in direct contradiction with Catholic Tradition going back to the apostles. The new catechism even argues the Pope's perspective as if it were the traditional position of the Church. It isn't.
Actually there have been popes teaching errors. But they have not taught error when speaking ex cathedra--big difference.
You are getting boring. Let the rest of the world be the guinea pig on soemthing we know is bad for human civilization. I'm glad that the Pope is speaking up on this topic, it's about time he took a strong stand against gay marriage.
At this point I am not quite sure what you are ranting about.
As I told you, it is an ancient idea - in scripture, private prophecy, and the writing of theologians down through the centuries that the Holy Catholic Church must endure/mimic Christ's passion and death, before it can be resurrected.
Those who expounded upon this idea are saints, mystics, and Doctors of the Church.
Try READING! Then if you still dont want ot believe it.....so be it.
The contradiction is not in the Scriptures and the Church practices. It is in the interpretor wrongly understanding either the Scripture or the practice. I've found that every accusation leveled against the Church regarding Scripture can be comfortably reconciled. But when I've asked questions to Scripture alone scholars about passages of Scripture, they are usually at a loss. (eg. Why was Micheal contending with Satan for the body of Moses as referenced in the Epistle of Jude?) And the role of Angels in general is usually a very weak point of understanding that Catholic theology and traditional understanding can reconcile.
Please know I'm not trying to raise hairs here - I try to seek the truth in all things and I'm just trying to get a clearer understanding.
Understood. Nothing wrong with asking questions and seeking understanding. :)
Uhhhh....last I checked the Catholic church never banned the use of the Tridentine Mass, so it would be licit to choose such a rite.
"Traditional Catholics understand the Pope may choose who is in the Church..."
Wrong. He may not excommunicate innocent people. If he does, such a judgment has no effect. You need to read up a little on this. Many of our most important theologians question whether the pope even has the power to concoct wholly new liturgies--Klaus Gamber, for one, had his doubts. The pope is not, after all, God, though neo-Catholics get confused on this point.
I never said the Pope spoke ex cathedra on capital punishment. It's people like you who treat every papal sneeze as though it were divinely protected, not I. In fact the Pontiff has been doctrinally contrary to all his predecessors on the subject--which means once again he opposes Tradition. Not surprising. He has many such extremist views. --Prayed with any witchdoctors lately?
You speak of an "Integrist heresy." Care to elaborate on such a slander? Which revealed dogma of faith are "Integrists" supposed to have rejected? --what binding dogmatic truth have they ever denied? In fact, traditionalists who are in the SSPX or who attend SSPX Masses are guilty of nothing except sticking to the faith while rejecting papal heterodoxies. Nothing whatsoever wrong with that.
Well, hypothetically, what would you do if the Pope somehow said, in say an encyclical, something against the Faith?
He already has:
"Man is the path the Church must follow." --Redemptor Hominis.
Seems like an ambigious statement coming from the Pope. Sounds like something i would hear in english class from a professor.
I am not able to find this passage in the encyclical. Can you cite its location? Thanks.
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