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To: Grzegorz 246

The German millitary aid was no big sacrifice, although I believe it was a good replacement of some much older (Russian) weapon systems in Poland. If it had not been given to Poland (the Leo 2s and the MiG 29s) we would have sold the stuff to China (giggle, giggle) or scrapped it, since we do not need it anymore due to such a nice neighbourhood with Poland.

:-)

The F-16 are really nothing special and probably not able to match future threats and opponents. I would prefer flying a SU-30 MKI, a Rafale or an EF2000 over an airplane, that flew for the first time in 1976. Updated scratch - nothing more. It would have been more honest from America to sell up-to-date stuff to you, even if it had been much more expensive. You shouldn't forget that your next enemys could be Iran or China (who both bought very efficent weapon systems from all around the world) if you keep standing into your staunch alliance with the US in the future. Could get really messy since Putin, Chirac and last but not least, our chancellor Schröder are makeing their business everywhere...

BTW - I do not think in millitary categories. This doesn't play a big role between the developed nations in Europe or America anymore. Real power refers to the economic possibilies of each nation. This will be the big strength of Poland in the future since your requirements are more than good. Over the EU you can build up infrastructures for free and you have a starving market in your country. This will be a real mixture of sucess. Since the US do not invest much in your economy they will have problems to keep up with this development of the future. From the moment you have enough money Poles will be really free to decide they you want do do and witch way they want to go (i.E. to be a EU-member or not or to buy real good fighters). I am sure that it will not take a long time anymore...


25 posted on 02/27/2005 4:28:51 AM PST by Atlantic Bridge (Quis, quid, ubi, quibus auxilius, cur, quomodo, quando?)
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To: Atlantic Bridge
Yes, I agree with you about the German military aid, however this is still useful and quite good equipment, especially in a case of tanks. It wasn't only charity, sooner or later we will upgrade them to A6 standard and this time we probably will have to pay for it. We also got from Germany about 16 or 18 ex-DDR Mi-24's. Many Germans would be surprised If they knew that 4 of them are now in Iraq and help these evil Americans to enslave poor Iraqis :)



"The F-16 are really nothing special and probably not able to match future threats and opponents."

Well, It's not any Wunderwaffe, but this is F-16 C/D block52.

The same version had been ordered by Israelis a year earlier - it means that this is good equipment.
The difference between F-16 A/B and F-16 C/D block52 is like between...

and...


SU-30 MKI, Rafale or Eurofighter ?
Rafale represent about the same level, SU-30 MKI is a little better in the air battle, but worse against ground targets, EFA is generally a little better, but much more expensive.

"I do not think in millitary categories. This doesn't play a big role between the developed nations in Europe or America anymore."

Yes, I don't say that Europeans should buy thousands of new tanks, artillery etc, but European countries should have more unites trained to occupation/stabilization missions, which could be sent to Afghanistan, Balkans etc. Germans were crying that Bush doesn't care about their opinion... Yes, but how many soldiers could Germany send to Iraq ? 3-5 thousand soldiers ? How much cash could Germany spend rebuilding (Or whatever you call it) Iraq with this problems with the budget ? Not much. France, Germany and others would like to be treated like partners by US, but Americans care only about strong and valuable allies.
In a case of Poland I may only say that we are selfish and care only about our own interests. If Bush said one bad word about us or even didn't praise us enough hard, our soldiers would be immediately withdrawn from Iraq, even If they had to come back on foot.

BTW The only, who wanted to tell us what kind of airplanes we should buy were Mr Chirac and Mr Prrrodi.
26 posted on 02/27/2005 5:33:40 AM PST by Grzegorz 246
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To: Atlantic Bridge

BTW SU-30 MKI is based on SU-27, which is about a year younger than F-16.


27 posted on 02/27/2005 5:43:14 AM PST by Grzegorz 246
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