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Trans Texas Corridor: Visionary concept or a train wreck for agriculture?
Texas Agriculture ^ | February 18 , 2005 | Lana Robinson

Posted on 02/18/2005 9:27:41 AM PST by Paleo Conservative

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To: Diddle E. Squat
Before I go further, do you understand that those wide colored lines on the map are only 10-mile wide study areas of options,

No, honestly I didn't. I may be stubborn, but I have no problem admitting it if I misunderstood or am just flat wrong.

Questions remain, though.

HOW will we make sure foreign truck maintain a safe level of operation?

HOW does the state justify allowing a monopoly to be created for the benefit of a PRIVATE company?

WHAT kind of safeguards are there to make sure the company doesn't try to financially rape the public?

Most importantly, IS this what the people WANT, or is it just legal contortions for the benefit of the government?

Any and all questions from every resident in this state need need to be addressed before they even APPROACH that piece of paper with a pen!

21 posted on 02/18/2005 11:12:35 AM PST by MamaTexan (It's not about God...it's about FREEDOM!)
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To: MamaTexan

Oh my, then I must immediately apologize for accusing you of intentionally lying. I didn't realize that you thought they were going to take the entire wide-lined areas. If that were actually the case, I would be leading not only the fight against the idea, but a call for impeachment! So sorry for my vitriole, now your concern becomes totally understandable.

Let me cover a few basics, to make sure we are all on the same page. There is a concept to build about a dozen corridors across the state over a 50 year period. The one parallel to I-35 is the first under study, and likely the only one that would be built in the next 8-10 years. Currently TXDOT is in the planning process and still negotiating the terms with the winning bidder to build this, Cintra. When that negotiation is complete, the terms will be announced, but as I understand it, that still doesn't mean the project is 100% going to take place, as there are state and federal requirements still to be met.

Right now TXDOT (as required by law) is taking public comment on routing options, of which there are several 1-mile wide study corridors, as seen on the map in my previous link. None of these have been graded yet based on a list of criteria (cost, amount of disruption, proximity to urban markets, estimated use, etc.) That will happen later, at which point one option will be chosen as the preferred alternative, an actual 800-1000' wide ROW route will be proposed, and all that will again be put forward for public comment, but with more extensive question and answer meetings. Then there is more steps in the approval process, but I don't know the details about that. Earliest it would be approved is next year, and the earliest the first portions would be finished (Hillsobro to a connection with I-10 east of San Antonio) is 2009-10.

As to foreign truck safety, that is really a separate issue that affects all roads. I was (and still am) against the allowance of Mexican trucks up here, even realizing that the stated reason was because it was in a treaty where we got tradeoffs from Mexico conceivably of more value. Bad idea.

The monopoly issue is a concern, let's read the fine print when the actual contract is negotiated and released. My guess is that there will be caps on the toll rates that can be charged, unless demand is so high that raising rates is necessary to limit use so as to maintain traffic flow at the posted speeds(as has been used on other tollways, since the idea is you pay a premium to avoid congestion and get there faster.)

As to what the people want, I can only speak for myself. I was originally against toll roads, but having read up on them, I now think this is a good idea, because the alternatives are either:

1) Don't build, but since we are going to keep rapidly growing in population then we will become as congested as the Northeast, DC area, California, etc.

2) Build as freeways, which would require a large gas tax increase (from 20 cents to nearly a dollar, even if we cancel the portion of the gas tax that funds schools) because there are already road projects that have been delayed for years because of limited funds

3) Build as freeways, but no gas tax increase, meaning it would take nearly 3-4 times as long to build the needed capacity

4) Allow toll financing, so a private company would pay for the road and take the risk of default, but get it built sooner

You raise valid concerns. I'd urge you to research both sides, both for and against, because for me the more I learned, the more I think it is a very good idea.

Here's some more info from an interview on Dan Patrick's KSEV radio show a few days ago with Transportation Commish Ric Williamson about the TTC, perhaps it might start to answer some questions:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1344806/posts


22 posted on 02/18/2005 11:45:15 AM PST by Diddle E. Squat
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To: Diddle E. Squat
If that were actually the case, I would be leading not only the fight against the idea, but a call for impeachment!

LOL!

Let's face it, you hang around FR long enough, you can get a little *gun-shy*!

I, too apologize for my... well... panic attack. :)

I'm still not that sure about it.

Another big concern being how much freeway access will there be for the folks who don't 'volunteer' to pay the toll/tax?

But I will check up on it.

Thanks for the link.

23 posted on 02/18/2005 12:06:41 PM PST by MamaTexan (Bad, bad FReepers!!! ROFL!)
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To: MamaTexan; Diddle E. Squat

Diddle E. Squat seems to have gotten things straightened out, so I won't pile on at this point.

There are some legitimate concerns with the whole corredor idea, but it won't be as bad as you initially feared.


24 posted on 02/18/2005 12:14:15 PM PST by PAR35
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To: MamaTexan

HOW does the state justify allowing a monopoly to be created for the benefit of a PRIVATE company?



Monopolies sometimes are the most economical means to benefit the population as a whole.... Utilities such as gas, water, electric, communication, rail, etc are a few examples... They need to be controlled such that they don't 'cluster f..!' the populace.... This is the state doing it's duty to provide transportation facilities via a financing/operating agreement with a private company..

Tickets.... well we can split the proceeds... or maybe we can get a few free tokens for the tollways...


25 posted on 02/18/2005 12:15:12 PM PST by deport (It maybe that your sole purpose in life is to serve as an example to others.)
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To: Trinity_Tx
If you dudes in Dallas think that the whole state is willing to pay higher gas taxes so you can ride for free, think again. It ain't gonna happen

You pay for your ride, I'll pay for mine.

26 posted on 02/18/2005 1:21:01 PM PST by Ben Ficklin
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To: Paleo Conservative

Interesting that New England is left entirely out of the picture...


27 posted on 02/18/2005 1:55:16 PM PST by Meldrim
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To: Ben Ficklin; Diddle E. Squat
Sheesh.

If it were that simple, I'd agree with you, of course.

"You pay for your ride, I'll pay for mine."

Well, if you want to get personal, lol.
Let's see... I put about 4-6 thousand miles a year on my SUV, ~75% of which is on the Dallas Tollway or GW Bush Turnpike.

So, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that means I'm paying for not only "my ride," but "yours", since I'm paying far more than my share of gas tax, on top of about $40 a month for tolls.

Whatever. As I said, it isn't that simple. My problem, our Texas Republican Party's problem, and other good conservatives' problem with this deal has to do with a variety of other things, as you know.

But don't worry. It's not that huge of a deal to me. And I've seen it debated here ad nauseum and don't see the use in adding more to the noise.

Besides, I know & admire Sir Diddly too much to argue with him on something he feels so strongly about. ; )
28 posted on 02/18/2005 3:04:33 PM PST by Trinity_Tx (Most of our so-called reasoning consists in finding arguments for going on believin as we already do)
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To: Trinity_Tx
Just so you don't think that you have a leg up on me, I've chunked my share of change into the ND tollway.

Hell, I've even used DFW Airport as a toll road.

29 posted on 02/18/2005 3:25:21 PM PST by Ben Ficklin
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To: FactsMatter; Diddle E. Squat; deport; Ben Ficklin
Could you please direct me to the company that is paying for your to astroturf? I am interested in a little extra money and this seams like an easy way to do it.

I'm doing this for nothing. All I did was collect links and pictures that had been posted on previous TTC threads and consolidate them into text files that I can copy and paste into a reply box on Free Republic. The files take up only 5 KB total on my hard drive, and they take just a few seconds to copy, paste, and post.

30 posted on 02/18/2005 3:48:29 PM PST by Paleo Conservative (Hey! Hey! Ho! Ho! Andrew Heyward's got to go!)
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To: Ben Ficklin

LOL Well, ya definitely got a leg up on me with the shortcut thing!

I can see why, though - not a bad idea. : )


31 posted on 02/18/2005 3:59:31 PM PST by Trinity_Tx (Most of our so-called reasoning consists in finding arguments for going on believin as we already do)
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To: Paleo Conservative

Then why the hit and run style of posting?


32 posted on 02/18/2005 4:06:10 PM PST by FactsMatter (:))
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To: Paleo Conservative

shusssssssh...... don't let them find out we are getting free tolls for the ten years after completion... gotta have some bennies for all the promotional work don'tcha see.


33 posted on 02/18/2005 4:06:30 PM PST by deport (It maybe that your sole purpose in life is to serve as an example to others.)
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To: FactsMatter

Also, quite a few of the graphics I post are hosted on anti-TTC websites.


34 posted on 02/18/2005 4:23:27 PM PST by Paleo Conservative (Hey! Hey! Ho! Ho! Andrew Heyward's got to go!)
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To: FactsMatter; Diddle E. Squat; deport; Ben Ficklin
Then why the hit and run style of posting?

Believe it or not some people may not have seen any of the previous threads on Free Republic about the TTC. I'm just trying to make it easier to find the information that has previously been posted on these threads.

35 posted on 02/18/2005 4:26:54 PM PST by Paleo Conservative (Hey! Hey! Ho! Ho! Andrew Heyward's got to go!)
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To: Paleo Conservative

Don't feel obligated to explain your posting history to a 2 day old newbie and his forty questions... jmo of course


36 posted on 02/18/2005 4:36:15 PM PST by deport (It maybe that your sole purpose in life is to serve as an example to others.)
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To: deport
Yes, it is much easier to brush off valid questions with the newbie label, isn't it?

Living in the state of Texas I can tell you that not very many people, outside of those who have a direct monetary or governmental stake in this project, want it to happen.

Something about toll roads and and increased gas tax and the habit of those in Austin to not spend the money on what they say it will be spent on.
37 posted on 02/18/2005 4:45:41 PM PST by FactsMatter (:))
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To: MamaTexan
The town of Bastrop, Bastrop County, located in Southeastern part of Central Texas.

The environmentalists, if sufficiently motivated, could easily delay or disrupt the I 35 portion of the corridor. There happens to be an endangered species found in that area, the Houston Toad.

If a big enough stink is raised, some "accommodations" would certainly be made.

38 posted on 02/18/2005 5:02:35 PM PST by Freebird Forever
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To: Paleo Conservative

"There are issues with Trans Texas Corridor that give rural members heartburn. "

these are legitimate issues to be raised.

i grew up on a farm and witnessed the effect of an interstate highway on our neighborhood. some things that happened:

1. there were arguments between farmers over whose land was purchased and at what price. one farmer held out for an absurd asking price and the state merely rerouted the freeway.

2. the state used "divide and rule" techniques to dismantle groups of farmers from causing problems at public meetings.

3. the state purchased soil for building the overpasses and freeway from farmers. our neighbor sold too much and destroyed the farm. my father sold clay soil underneath the good soil insisting that they remove the topsoil and replace it, which they did with no ill effects.

4. the biggest impact was socially on our neighborhood. friends on the other side of the freeway had to drive long distances to visit. gradually visits became longer and longer until friendships dissolved.

many of the farm women embraced the freeways and formed new relationships and got jobs in the city.

the end result was that people that some people we knew well before the freeway, we no longer knew. they had become strangers.

5. crime reared its head. we never locked our doors or cars and trucks until the freeway came. also, there were always people stranded with broken down vehicles that needed to use a phone. i never was comfortable with people walking onto the farm from the freeway. some wanted gas, some money, etc.

this has lessened with the advent of cell phones.

6. the state up graded our freeway from asphalt to concrete. you can NOT hear yourself think within 2 city blocks of a concrete freeway.

it's not the same place after the freeway's built. that's "progress".


39 posted on 02/18/2005 5:08:58 PM PST by ken21
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To: Paleo Conservative
SUPER-CONDUCTING SUPER-COLLIDER II
40 posted on 02/18/2005 5:09:34 PM PST by UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide (Give Them Liberty Or Give Them Death! - Islam Delenda Est! - Rumble thee forth...)
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