In Six Days (A Biology PHD looks at Evolution)

In Six Days ^ | 02/17/05 | Timothy G. Standish, PHD biology

[Fester Chugabrew]

"Methinks it is like a weasel."

Who could possibly dream up a description more suited to the philosophy of evolution than millions of monkeys, one of which finally arrives at the truth.

What is missing from the equation is the meaning behind that sequence of letters. Monkeys typing randomly are doing just that, so even if they typed out a whole volume of Shakespeare, unless there were a design in place for interpereting the sequence of letters they are just random letters.

[WildTurkey]

And showed that random guesses could arrive at a solution, just as evolution arrived at our "solution".

[microgood]

Since you're a fan, here's some more recent Gould (1994).

I like reading Gould because he shows some skepticism about the things in evolution that I find questionable (large transitional events).

Thanks for the quotes and links.

[JohnnyM]

"The religious response to that seems to be that God created a "mature" universe that looks to us like it is billions of years old when in fact it is not"

My answer is God created a mature Adam. Adam was not created as a baby. Why would creating a mature Earth be somehow off limits for Him?

JM

[nyg4168]

I see no reference in Genesis to Adam being an adult male at his creation.

[shubi]

ROFLMAO Most fossils have no carbon whatsoever. "Many people have been led to be skeptical of dating without knowing much about it. For example, most people don't realize that carbon dating is only rarely used on rocks."

http://www.asa3.org/ASA/resources/Wiens.html

I don't see how "excess" carbon is pertinent to dating fossils that are millions of years old, when it is the rock around the fossil that is dated, not the fossil itself.

"With a half-life of only 5730 years, carbon-14 dating has nothing to do with dating the geological ages! Whether by sloppiness or gross ignorance, Dr. Hovind is confusing the carbon-14 "clock" with other radiometric "clocks.""

"The only thing in the geologic record which has anything to do with calibrating carbon-14 dating is the coal from the Carboniferous Period. Being ancient, the C-14 content has long since decayed away and that makes it useful in "zeroing" laboratory instruments. It's just one of the tricks that have been used to make the work a little more precise." The above is from a different article, but it seems to address the claims you are making.

"If you get your information from a creationist source, you'd better triple-check it! Errors get handed down in the creationist literature like the family jewels!"

Another article contained the above warning. I think you should heed it.

[shubi]

Gould just said he resents people doing what you just did, but you went ahead and put words in his mouth anyway.

What large transitional events are you talking about? Most scientists think evolution takes place rather gradually.

[gidget7]

Maybe Bill Maher shold read this book!

[shubi]

"I'm taking the history recorded in Genesis as one piece of evidence and I'm trying to find theories that can fit with all the evidence."

See, you are doing it wrong. First you must have hypotheses that are supported by evidence. Then when you get a bunch of hypotheses together that have actual evidence, you can form a theory explaining an observed phenomenon with them. They all have to explain the theory. You can't have any hanging out, like there was no global flood.

[shubi]

Actually it is evidence and it is supported by scientific analysis. It is all supported hypothesis and it all fits the theory, making it unlike any "creation science" extant.

[WildTurkey]

Dr. Wiens:

"Rightly Handling the Word of Truth

As Christians it is of great importance that we understand God's word correctly. Yet from the middle ages up until the 1700s people insisted that the Bible taught that the Earth, not the Sun, was the center of the solar system. It wasn't that people just thought it had to be that way; they actually quoted scriptures: "The Earth is firmly fixed; it shall not be moved" (Psalm 104:5), or "the sun stood still" (Joshua 10:13; why should it say the sun stood still if it is the Earth's rotation that causes day and night?), and many other passages. I am afraid the debate over the age of the Earth has many similarities. But I am optimistic. Today there are many Christians who accept the reliability of geologic dating, but do not compromise the spiritual and historical inerrancy of God's word."

[shubi]

Fighting fair is not a creationist technique.

[shubi]

"Prove to me that Argon isn't seeping into the rocks and fossils and contaminating everything that has been dated."

If we "prove" this to you, will you accept that evolution is the fact it is?

[shubi]

LOL that was a gotcha. I guess literalism only goes to the point where things become absurd even to the creationist.

[WildTurkey]

If we "prove" this to you, will you accept that evolution is the fact it is?

He didn't particularly care for my response that it would be MORE likely for the AR to leak out than leak into the rocks.

[shubi]

Apparently, God did not know before hand that a pet would not suffice for Adam. And Adam gaveth names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.  (Ge 2:20) I guess since the speed of light had not slowed down yet, the kryptonite was interfering with omniscience.

[shubi]

Hey, to a creationist fabricated data is just as good as any. The end justifies the means.

[DannyTN]

I can prove that it isn't (neither as a contamination in "everything", nor as a contamination in any particular sample) because if it were, that would be obvious as a nonlinearity on the isochron lines.

Most dating has not been done by using the Isochron Parent/Daughter/Daughter method, so on the vast majority of dates, we don't know whether the P/D/D line was linear.

What's more, ICR has several research papers out showing, non-linear isochrons for Potassium Argon and if I read the first article below they have an example of a linear Argon Isochron showing a discordant date with a linear Isochron of another Isotope.

DISCORDANT POTASSIUM-ARGON MODEL AND ISOCHRON "AGES" FOR CARDENAS BASALT (MIDDLE PROTEROZOIC) AND ASSOCIATED DIABASE OF EASTERN GRAND CANYON, ARIZONA

From the conclusion..."Both the old and new data imply that the rocks leaked argon in nearly exact proportion to the abundance of potassium producing a "leakage isochron", an explanation not supported by a quantity of an appropriate mineral or mesostasis phase. "...."All three explanations offered as alternatives to the argon loss models invalidate using the K-Ar system as conventional geochronology would assume."

ANDESITE FLOWS AT MT NGAURUHOE, NEW ZEALAND, AND THE IMPLICATIONS FOR POTASSIUM-ARGON "DATING"

"Therefore, these considerations call into question all K-Ar "dating", whether "model ages" or "isochron ages", and all 40Ar/39Ar "dating", as well as "fossil dating" that has been calibrated against K-Ar "dates".

And while a linear P/D/D line is a logical test for contamination from Argon, even if not completely reliable, it dones nothing for excess argon captured in rock formation.

"EXCESS ARGON": THE "ACHILLES' HEEL" OF POTASSIUM-ARGON AND ARGON-ARGON "DATING" OF VOLCANIC ROCKS

"Far from being rare, there are numerous reported examples of excess 40Ar* in recent or young volcanic rocks producing excessively old K-Ar "ages":3

Akka Water Fall flow, Hawaii (Pleistocene) 32.3±7.2 Ma
Kilauea Iki basalt, Hawaii (AD 1959) 8.5±6.8 Ma
Mt. Stromboli, Italy, volcanic bomb (September 23, 1963) 2.4±2 Ma
Mt. Etna basalt, Sicily (May 1964) 0.7±0.01 Ma
Medicine Lake Highlands obsidian,
Glass Mountains, California (<500 years old) 12.6±4.5 Ma
Hualalai basalt, Hawaii (AD 1800-1801) 22.8±16.5 Ma
Rangitoto basalt, Auckland, NZ (<800 years old) 0.15±0.47 Ma
Alkali basalt plug, Benue, Nigeria (<30 Ma) 95 Ma
Olivine basalt, Nathan Hills, Victoria Land,
Antarctica (<0.3 Ma) 18.0±0.7 Ma
Anorthoclase in volcanic bomb, Mt Erebus,
Antarctica (1984) 0.64±0.03 Ma
Kilauea basalt, Hawaii (<200 years old) 21±8 Ma
Kilauea basalt, Hawaii (<1,000 years old) 42.9±4.2 Ma; 30.3±3.3 Ma
East Pacific Rise basalt (<1 Ma) 690±7 Ma
Seamount basalt, near East Pacific Rise (<2.5 Ma) 580±10 Ma; 700±150 Ma
East Pacific Rise basalt (<0.6 Ma) 24.2±1.0 Ma

[shubi]

Well, his example was radon leaking out, so I don't see any problem with him buying argon leaking out.

You are doing an excellent job of holding his feet to the fire, btw.

[DannyTN]

"You can't have any hanging out, like there was no global flood. "

There is evidence for the flood.