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To: Mad Dawgg

Jpsb is capable, apparently, of noting the good done by something that he may or may not fully agree with. See, that's the nature of HONTESTLY persuing the right course for this nation. Unions once served a purpose - to give the workers some measure of equity against the slavemasters of business at the time.

The problem is - to the extent that the unions helped, that has been largely supplanted with a union structure today that is as abusive as the businesspeople they were a protest against. Not all unions are bad; but, when looking at some glowing examples, we find the UAW which has largely come to be as abusive to the employee as to the employer and seems to fail both - begging their real worth in the midst of the abuse.

Contracting for labor individually or collectively is the right of the people and such has been written into law in this country. So, whatever your opinion of it its irrelevant to the discussion. It's legal and has been for quite some time. But, I doubt very much that unions, given their track record, will survive the next century. If they can't be useful without being abusive to business and the worker, then they are fated to die out just as they were fated to exist.

You're beef seems to be, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, that you think unions are communistic and have no place her. Is that true, and if so, why? Do you think workers have no rights? If so, do you believe business has rights? Given that both are people, how is it that you suppose one may have rights where the other has none?.. if indeed you do believe that. Not trying to put words in your mouth here, just trying to ask the obvious questions and perhaps get some thinking going here instead of flip reactions.


425 posted on 02/15/2005 3:23:41 PM PST by Havoc (Reagan was right and so was McKinley. Down with free trade. Hang the traitors high)
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To: Havoc
You know Unions get bashed a lot here, but I wonder how many FReepers would turn down one of those $100,000 a year jobs at the Port of Long Beach?
(BTW our beloved Ronnie Reagan was a union President)
428 posted on 02/15/2005 3:27:09 PM PST by investigateworld (Babies= A sure sign He hasn't given up on mankind!)
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To: Havoc
"You're beef seems to be, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, that you think unions are communistic and have no place her. Is that true, and if so, why?"

Trade Unions (the modern incarnations) were transformed in the Socialist/Communist movement circa 1805 by Robert Owen (an Englishman) check out his history and you will see how it all began.

Here is what I believe on labor prices If I deem a job is worth 5.00 an hour then that is what I want to pay, if you deem it is not enough then you don't have to work for me.

If I decide my loaf of bread needs to sell for $2.00 than that is what I want to charge. If you want to pay $1.00 per loaf then you don't have to buy my bread.

If I hire you and Bill Gates to make bread for me and Bill manages to make me 10 more loaves a day than you do and I give him a raise for his increased output it doesn't mean you get a raise.

Unions screw up every bit of the above and increase costs that only get passed on to the end user anyhow it is just a power grab by a few elites using populist BS to get a "us vs. them" war going so they can profit off of it.

430 posted on 02/15/2005 3:47:12 PM PST by Mad Dawgg (French: old Europe word meaning surrender)
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