Posted on 02/15/2005 6:44:11 AM PST by dennisw
Would you like fries with those charts?
Offshoring as an engine for producing greater profits is growing. Unemployment is not the only marker. The number of new jobs created overseas instead of here that are serving our market that undercuts/subverts business operating here to the point that it is unwise to either go into said lines of business or to work for them knowing it will eventually mean the axe cometh. This is precisely what our forefathers were trying to prevent, the running of America out of it's own marketplace.
You're trying to tell us that now that you've outsourced us up to 5-6 percent unemployment, we should just be happy that only 19 million people are being written off and not worth their jobs or livelihoods... It was lower than what it is now and we were working toward full employment. You are essentially arguing that kicking out up to 6 percent isn't bad as long as it's in the range of prior norms. No, that isn't acceptable. The minute you do it to One person it's unacceptable. When we were squatters under despotism, you had no right to move in and take a man's home and livelihood from him. Higher forms of governance evolved to escape that happenstance. And now that we have the best one on the face of the earth, you're taking men's livelihood away from them and giving it to a foreigner in another land for profit. No different than despotism. If it's no different, how is it better. But it isn't bad enough that this kind of treason is done at all, you're doing it during a tough cycle and in wartime. Not only that; but, when the object isn't staying afloat; but, to make more profit. I don't know how much deeper you can go with that betrayal. If there was profit in it, I'm sure ya'll could imagine it though. I do not understand how you cannot get that.
I don't accept the 5.2 percent number as it, in my understanding, stops counting people as unemployed when they fall of the unemployment roles. There are other problems with it IMO; but, I've never believed those figures from either side because both spin it anyway they can to try for the best face on it.
19 million people. No, it isn't acceptable and it isn't right.
Ahh, did you major in hyperbole?
OK so let me get this straight:
You are saying that outsourcing has caused our emplyoment numbers to worsen due to the dropping of tariffs with the NAFTA agreement correct?
This is asked for clarification because your point seems to be flailing about.
I'm guessing that this refers to the quality of wages being paid? If so, you have an excellent point:
Series Id: CES0500000049 |
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| Year | Jan | Feb | Mar | Apr | May | Jun | Jul | Aug | Sep | Oct | Nov | Dec | Annual |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1994 | 7.54 | 7.56 | 7.54 | 7.55 | 7.55 | 7.53 | 7.52 | 7.50 | 7.50 | 7.53 | 7.52 | 7.52 | |
| 1995 | 7.51 | 7.52 | 7.52 | 7.51 | 7.50 | 7.52 | 7.54 | 7.54 | 7.55 | 7.55 | 7.56 | 7.55 | |
| 1996 | 7.55 | 7.54 | 7.53 | 7.54 | 7.54 | 7.56 | 7.56 | 7.58 | 7.58 | 7.57 | 7.58 | 7.58 | |
| 1997 | 7.59 | 7.60 | 7.63 | 7.64 | 7.67 | 7.67 | 7.68 | 7.71 | 7.70 | 7.74 | 7.76 | 7.78 | |
| 1998 | 7.79 | 7.83 | 7.86 | 7.88 | 7.88 | 7.88 | 7.88 | 7.92 | 7.93 | 7.93 | 7.94 | 7.94 | |
| 1999 | 7.95 | 7.98 | 8.00 | 7.98 | 8.00 | 8.02 | 8.01 | 8.01 | 8.00 | 8.00 | 8.00 | 8.00 | |
| 2000 | 8.02 | 8.01 | 7.98 | 8.03 | 8.03 | 8.01 | 8.02 | 8.04 | 8.03 | 8.05 | 8.06 | 8.07 | |
| 2001 | 8.03 | 8.06 | 8.09 | 8.09 | 8.06 | 8.07 | 8.10 | 8.13 | 8.11 | 8.16 | 8.20 | 8.24 | |
| 2002 | 8.22 | 8.23 | 8.22 | 8.19 | 8.21 | 8.23 | 8.23 | 8.23 | 8.24 | 8.25 | 8.26 | 8.29 | |
| 2003 | 8.26 | 8.25 | 8.21 | 8.23 | 8.28 | 8.29 | 8.31 | 8.27 | 8.25 | 8.27 | 8.31 | 8.30 | |
| 2004 | 8.27 | 8.26 | 8.24 | 8.24 | 8.21 | 8.19 | 8.23 | 8.25 | 8.25 | 8.21 | 8.21 | 8.23(p) | |
| p : preliminary |
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Wages in the private sector have been stagnant for three years; in fact, from 1994-2004, in real terms they have appreciated about 9%, or less than 1% per year.
For what it is worth, the public sector pays better than the private one; average hourly wages in the public sector are just over $22. For the private sector, it's more like $16.
I say we revisit permanent MostFavoredNation trading status fer the Chi-Coms...on humanitarian grounds.
FReegards...MUD
No, the point isn't flailing about. I have stated that from the beginning and have been stating it for some time. There was falloff due to the bubble burst which put us into recession. There was falloff due to 9/11. And there was falloff due to you guys throwing people out of work for higher profits (offshoring). 9/11 we can't fix. The bubble burst we understand. But, a hand up to bin laden by disowning americans in the business sector for profit - that's treason WHETHER intended or not. And yes, your free trade junk is responsible. The tariffs need to be put back in place and our relationship with the WTO should be severed for the unconstitutional garbage it is.
OK it is hard to follow so again I ask for clarification is the above answer a YES, to the question listed here: "You are saying that outsourcing has caused our emplyoment numbers to worsen due to the dropping of tariffs with the NAFTA agreement correct?"
MD -- FYI, have you seen the new book on China? Front page review in NYT today.
"What's the Truth?!"
(To be sung to Johnny Cash's "What is Truth?")
Rush Limbaugh's talkin' on the Rad-ee-oh...
Sayin', "Where did our sense of Justice go?
Slick sure seems to be inventin' new ways...
Of keepin' the Truth from gettin' airplay!!"
Said, "They're crooks, you see, and their motives're Vile!!"
Still, the Medyuh says, "Bill's OUR Flower Child!!"
Country, can't you see thru these Lyin' Boys?
We gotta FIGHT to be heard o'er their LeftWing Noise!!
While the Lonely Voice of Youth cries..."What's the Truth?!"
My little boy of five, playin' in the yard,
Looks up and says, "Daddy, who's Ken Starr?" [yeah, it's an old song, circa 4/99...I'll fix it.]
"Son, he's trackin' bad men who Cheat and Lie!!"
Little man of five says, "Slick Ain't Right!!"
Young men of seventeen killin' kids at school,
As Courts outlaw the Golden Rule...
No prayer in school, teachers puttin' Faith down,
While Slick Willie jokes, "Let's pass a Joint aroun'!"
Can you blame the Voice of Youth fer askin' "What's the Truth?!"
EX-Prez'dent's sittin' on the Witness Stand,
The man with the Book says, "Raise yer hand...
Repeat after me, 'I solemnly swear...' "
Yet the Nation said, "We just don't care."
'Cuz although Clinton solemnly swore,
Nobody really trusted Slick no more.
Culture's got so sleazy that America's unaware...
That EX-Prez'dent sold China missiles that're aimed at Bel Air!!
Still the RightWing's called uncouth fer askin', "What's the Truth?!"
Young girl internin' with the White House Sleaze...
Doin' Bill's job while on her knees!!
FReepers protest in the Public Square,
While fightin' 'gainst this Lib'ral Nightmare!!
Yeah, these young'uns that yer callin' "WILD"...
Are gonna be yer Leaders in a little while!!
The Whole World's Wakin' to FReedom today,
And I solemnly swear that it'll be OUR way!!
We gotta help our Voiceless Youth find, "What is True?!"
'Cuz the future needs more Youth askin', "What's the Truth?!!"
A little Johnny Cash never hurt anyone...MUD
Because they're stupid...
There are so many well paying IT jobs right now,just begging for Americans to take, that headhunters are NOW and have been swamped for over a year.It's a boom time and any American who can't get a good job today,is either not willing to move,or is incompetent.
Yet, more Americans are employed than at any time in our nation's history.
Nope, got a link or a book title?
Nice LOL.
Blasphemer!
Heretic!
Get ye down unclean beast...
[
[
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Sorry, I was channeling Havoc there for a bit...
;-)
Here's the first couple of graphs of the review..
CHINA INC.
How the Rise of the Next Superpower Challenges America and the World
By Ted C. Fishman
342 pages. Scribner. $26.
f the 20th was the American century, then the 21st belongs to China. It's that simple, Ted C. Fishman says, and anyone who doubts it should take his whirlwind tour of the world's fastest-developing economy.
The numbers are staggering. From 1982 through 2002, the United States economy grew at an annual rate of 3.3 percent, he writes, well above average for the world's most prosperous nations. China's economy grew at an annual rate of 9.5 percent, meaning it "doubled nearly three times over," in the generation since market reforms were introduced. In 2003 it bought 7 percent of the world's oil, a quarter of its aluminum and steel, almost a third of its iron ore and coal, and 40 percent of its cement. It makes 40 percent of all furniture sold in the United States. Its 3,000 Christmas-decoration factories exported more than $900 million tree trimmings and plastic Santas in the first 10 months of 2003.
"China still only makes one-twentieth of everything produced in the world, but on the world stage it plays the role of a new factory in an old industrial town," Mr. Fishman says. "It can spend, it can bully, it can hire and dictate wages, it can throw old-line competitors out of work. It changes the way everyone does business."
One of the most powerful weapons in China's economic arsenal is what businesses have come to know as "the China price." A stampede from the countryside to China's new industrial boomtowns has created a vast low-wage army, working for an average of 40 cents an hour, that can turn out consumer goods of every description even cheaper than Mexican or Malaysian factories can. American factories that cannot deliver to Wal-Mart or General Motors at the China price often face two stark choices: they can go under or set up shop in China.
I think I specifically said offshoring - not outsourcing. Outsourcing is moving business to another market to produce for that market with employees in that market and under that market's rules. Offshoring is evading a market's rules/laws and workforce while going to another market to produce with their labor and reimport to the original market to try and outdo the home market for profit. And Offshoring is what I credited with nafta/free trade/WTO nonsense. Perhaps I missed defining my terms or you missed it. I've been in too many discussions today here and elsewhere on this, so I'll assume the failure was mine.
It is treason.. pure and simple. Selling out your home market and subverting it for profit. If that isn't treason, then there is no such thing and you need to go resuscitate the Rosenbergs and a bunch of other people.
OK good enough lets us clairify even further.
Did NAFTA cause unemployment to rise in the USA? Yes or No.
It isn't treason. It may be unpatriotic, but it still isn't treason.
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