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To: Robert Drobot

I agree. "Never Again!" should apply in both terms of the Holocaust AND Versailles.

At some point everyone needs to put the past in the past and move on.

If you can't do that then at some point you will have to fight another war over the same issues all over again.

The Balkans are a good example of what happens when people try to redress grievances of past generations upon present generations.

At some point, virtually every country in the world has been at war with another.

Should Mexico try to take back Texas?

Should Britain try to take back the USA?

Should the USA go bomb Germany some more?

Of course not.

At some point you have to let it go and move on.

Hammering today's Germany over the head about the Holocaust is fanning the fire the neo-Nazis are trying to start.

Let it go, move on, and the neo-Nazis become an oddity.

Dwell in the past, demand their persecution for being idiots, and you create martyrs.

Remember, Hitler was just a quirky fellow with an odd moustache until he went to jail.


79 posted on 02/14/2005 11:17:42 AM PST by PeterFinn (Why is it that people who know the least know it the loudest?)
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To: PeterFinn

......but what of the holocaust profiteers who live in comfort from the continued incitement of Jewish WWII victims. That target market will remain for them to plunder for another generation. It matters not to them that they are living very well on the backs of their own.


80 posted on 02/14/2005 11:42:18 AM PST by Robert Drobot (God, family, country. All else is meaningless.)
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To: PeterFinn

I was not aware there was a holocaust when I first developed my opinion of Hitler..I was a child listening to to radio broadcasts made from London with my parents..I was a child watching the men and boys going off to a war we did not start to defend a land not our own. Since then I have read history. War is hell..Innocents die in war.

Do not compare the results of bombing cities with the systematic rounding up of civilians and working them to death, starving them, doing medical experiments on them and enacting a "final solution" for certain ethnic "undesirables".

I remember sitting next to my mother in church where everyone gathered once it was announced DDay had started.

I remember.



http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/ItisPeke/VDay.html


90 posted on 02/14/2005 3:07:05 PM PST by MEG33 (GOD BLESS OUR ARMED FORCES)
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To: PeterFinn; familyop
"How many legs does a dog have if you call a tail a leg? Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg." --Abraham Lincoln

The problem, of course, with the special pleading in your post is precisely summed up by that quote from the 16th president of the United States: treating the Holocaust as just another example in a long set of abuses, inhumane outrages, and historical occurrences of man's continuing inhumanity to man in the long history of the species doesn't make it so, try as it might.

Nope: the Holocaust was, and remains, unique in that horrific category.

It was and remains the only attempt to industrialize mass murder undertaken by a modern state aimed at exterminating a particular religious minority anywhere they existed on the face of the earth, ever.

Remember the old saw about fascist regimes? That, for whatever their manifest faults, they at least "made the trains run on time"? In the case of Nazi Germany's fascist regime they did indeed clean up that punctuality problem with their rail service--those cattle cars packed with human beings certainly arrived right on schedule with a dazzling precision of regularity before depositing their cargo of men, women, & children at their final destination, on the way to being gassed or worked to death...

That fact alone makes it unique in human history, period. But wait! There's more...

In nearly every other example of indiscriminate genocide that history provides for our grim perusal, there is always some sort of context to frame the overall explanation of the atrocity in; not mitigation--and hear me very well on this point--for the historical act, but a context in which certain members of Group A tangled with Group B in some violent manner or fashion, and one or the other turned upon ALL members of the opposing group and started slitting throats, innocent or not. Again, just to be clear, this is not justification or even the slightest mitigation for whatever historical genocide of the past you might wish to point to--simply context within which it is appropriate to examine the available facts of why this or that particular series of atrocious events occurred.

That context simply does not exist when reflecting on the history and narrative of the Holocaust of the Jews, anywhere. It was the mandate of one ugly mind whom happened to grasp incredible power at one fantastic stroke of time, in a country that had happened to have mastered the Industrial Revolution and internalized it's efficient production methods to a peak of perfection, and with the background of a powerful martial spirit & history of arms backing him up. That millions of Germans were complicit in his actions is hardly the point, at least for purposes of this discussion; that a nation undertook, for the first time in recorded memory, to massacre a religious minority ensconced and integrated into it's own society, and then reach out for MORE to systematically kill beyond it's own borders, is a singular act of horror in the repulsive pantheon of human atrocities, and shame.

And it is historically unique, as such.

You blather "move on" to your heart's content; I, for one, will continue to shout "NEVER FORGET!" whenever and wherever the subject of the Holocaust of the Jews arises. You see, in the spring of 1988, while I was in the Air Force, this Christian had an opportunity to visit the remains of the former Nazi concentration camp at Bergen-Belsen. And the legends are true: the birds don't sing there. As I imagine they don't at any such former sites where concentrated evil was unleashed, and the sour stench of the coldblooded mass murder of innocents followed.

I'd highly recommend that you undertake to visit such a place, and then get back to me. Until then, I'd suggest you steer clear of bald assertions about what we should or should not put "in the past" in order to "move on" regarding the Holocaust of the Jews--at least in this forum.

There are some things we should, as decent men & women, never, "move on" from remembering with zealous historical diligence--and this subject is one of them.

116 posted on 02/16/2005 12:04:38 AM PST by A Jovial Cad ("I had no shoes and I complained, until I saw a man who had not feet.")
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