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To: Kevin OMalley
Your link references an article from 11985. A little outdated.

>>According to B. R. A. Burns, Chief Aerodynamicist at British Aerospace Aircraft Group, in other than beyond-visual-range (BVR) air-to-air engagements, maximum speed is often less important than maneuverability and the ability to change energy by accelerating or climbing rapidly.<<

Spoken by a non-fighter pilot OR (operations research bean-counter).

>>He points out that, particularly with modern missiles, there is no escape from close air combat by speed alone; once engaged, only superior maneuverability or tactics will win the day.<<

"Speed is life" That is something you learn about as a fighter pilot. Stopping dead in your tracks and/or trying to jump out of the way of a missile is lunacy and fantasy. First, where do you think you get the energy to turn at corner (quickest, tightest turn)? Airspeed. Second, missiles most always were faster than the aircraft otherwise they would merely hang on the rails as you flew faster than their launch speed. Third, missiles have proximity fuses and do not require a hit. Four, you beat the missile by trying to generate miss distance, if you can't spoof it entirely. Five, disappearing from doppler by putting yourself on the beam or by hovering doesn't work against our stuff. I could go on and on and on. . .

>>Except for "slashing attacks on an unwary foe, speed is an embarrassment because rate of turn is restricted by G limits (structural or physiological)."<<

This guy has no clue about Corner Speed. Also, he is BAE, the people who build the Harrier and one suspects he is a bit biased and tainted in his analysis. . .wanting to make sales to those that don't know any better.

>>Burns identifies three key parameters for achieving success in air-to-air close combat: maximum sustained (thrust-limited) turn rate, maximum attained (lift-limited) turn rate, and specific excess power.9<<

Corner, Corner, Corner, and don't go to the merge if you can avoid it.

>>The AV-8B performs extremely well in all three of these areas. <<

*Snicker*
98 posted on 02/26/2005 4:00:29 PM PST by Gunrunner2
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To: Gunrunner2

Your link references an article from 1985. A little outdated.
***That might be the key to unwravelling this whole melee.

>>According to B. R. A. Burns, Chief Aerodynamicist at British Aerospace Aircraft Group, in other than beyond-visual-range (BVR) air-to-air engagements, maximum speed is often less important than maneuverability and the ability to change energy by accelerating or climbing rapidly.<<

Spoken by a non-fighter pilot OR (operations research bean-counter).
***I thought it made sense. I would welcome comments from actual Harrier pilots.

>>He points out that, particularly with modern missiles, there is no escape from close air combat by speed alone; once engaged, only superior maneuverability or tactics will win the day.<<

"Speed is life" That is something you learn about as a fighter pilot. Stopping dead in your tracks and/or trying to jump out of the way of a missile is lunacy and fantasy.
***OK, but like the High G Barrel roll, it's probably a good maneuver against another aircraft so you can line up a hit.

First, where do you think you get the energy to turn at corner (quickest, tightest turn)? Airspeed. Second, missiles most always were faster than the aircraft otherwise they would merely hang on the rails as you flew faster than their launch speed.
***Doesn't that say the same thing as "there is no escape from close air combat by speed alone"? I'm afraid I don't understand.

Third, missiles have proximity fuses and do not require a hit. Four, you beat the missile by trying to generate miss distance, if you can't spoof it entirely.
***I don't understand how these 2 points counteract anything I've said. Please elaborate.

Five, disappearing from doppler by putting yourself on the beam
***I don't know what "on the beam" means.

or by hovering doesn't work against our stuff. I could go on and on and on. . .
***How about some primary source material on that?

>>Except for "slashing attacks on an unwary foe, speed is an embarrassment because rate of turn is restricted by G limits (structural or physiological)."<<

This guy has no clue about Corner Speed. Also, he is BAE, the people who build the Harrier and one suspects he is a bit biased and tainted in his analysis. . .wanting to make sales to those that don't know any better.
***I don't know about Corner Speed either. Please elaborate, I'm sure the forum will appreciate it.

>>Burns identifies three key parameters for achieving success in air-to-air close combat: maximum sustained (thrust-limited) turn rate, maximum attained (lift-limited) turn rate, and specific excess power.9<<

Corner, Corner, Corner, and don't go to the merge if you can avoid it.
***I don't know what you're saying here, please explain.

>>The AV-8B performs extremely well in all three of these areas. <<

*Snicker*
***Source material please.


124 posted on 02/27/2005 10:45:39 PM PST by Kevin OMalley (ANNOYING MAN toys for sale at www.annoyingman.com)
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