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To: OHelix
I think the employee portion of the payroll taxes (and personal income tax) being eliminated will result in increased net wages, rather than decreased prices. However, the employer portion will result in decreased costs. Market pressure will determine if the decreased costs result in decreased prices rather than increased profits.

It will almost have to reduce the price. Adding a 30% sales tax on goods, while perhaps decreasing costs 10% will put heavy pressure on prices. I can't imagine this plan being good for people on fixed incomes who will not have the added purchasing power from the eliminate Payroll Taxes, but will have to be faced with paying more for goods and services.

622 posted on 02/17/2005 11:32:40 AM PST by Always Right
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To: Always Right
It will almost have to reduce the price. Adding a 30% sales tax on goods, while perhaps decreasing costs 10% will put heavy pressure on prices. I can't imagine this plan being good for people on fixed incomes who will not have the added purchasing power from the eliminate Payroll Taxes, but will have to be faced with paying more for goods and services.

I think that is a valid point. However, I think 10% is a low estimate in my judgement, especially in the long run. But I would also like to point out the dynamics involved using your numbers as an example. Even if prices only come down 10%, a $10 item would be priced at $9. Adding 29.87% tax would yield a total cost of $11.69 including the tax.

If your estimate is low, and prices were reduced by 15%, the $8.50 item plus the 29.87% tax would yield $11.04.

Keep in mind they will also receive the credit to compensate for 23% of their purchases up to the poverty level. Also consider how the benefits are calculated. If the cost of living goes up, then the benefits should rise as well.

623 posted on 02/17/2005 12:25:05 PM PST by OHelix
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To: Always Right

Perfect example of how the economy REALLY works.



Solving Problems in a Free Society

by Harry Browne
February 9, 2005

After I wrote about the Age of Tranquility
http://www.harrybrowne.org/Journal0501.htm#0131
(the period before there were drug laws in America), I received the following email:

A frightening thought - if the clock were to be
turned back, free access to drugs once again.

In earlier times these things simply evolved, no
fuss or feathers. As you say, they were there,
people used them as such (a bit like glue used to be
in my own childhood, something used to stick fingers
to balsa wood; it never occurred to us to sniff it).
Today the mentality is different.

Now there is too much mystique - take the lid off
and the box would explode? If these drugs are as
addictive as claimed, and they suddenly became
freely available ... brrrrrrrr.

I understand the concept of freedom, to destroy
oneself if one chooses; I also believe that the
majority of people are decent and have common
sense. A country with a small population might be
able to absorb such an experiment, but your country
with its unique mindset ("Bomb everybody to make
the world safe") couldn't handle it.

I can see why it would be easy to believe this. Much the same fears were expressed when the repeal of Alcohol Prohibition was being considered in the early 1930s - even though Prohibition had been in force only a little over a decade. There was talk that America would become a nation of drunks - that the people who had been teetotalers before Prohibition would now be tempted to give it a try, and that the old customs that restrained people voluntarily would no longer be respected.

Of course, when Prohibition ended, people celebrated happily for a few weeks - and then life returned to pre-Prohibition normality. The gang wars were over, no one had to risk his life drinking bathtub gin anymore, and police corruption diminished rapidly.
The celebrations were about more than just the availability of legal booze; they cheered the return of peace and freedom.

Planned Economy or Freedom?

A similar situation occurred at the end of World War II.

As the war was winding down in 1945, there was a great deal of hand-wringing over the problem of 10 million GIs coming home from war and looking for jobs. How could the economy handle such a huge, sudden influx of labor? The Common Wisdom predicted another Great Depression. (Actually, the first one had never ended, since very few people saw their standard of living increase during the war).

When the war ended, Congress set to work to create a giant plan to control the transition to a peacetime economy, work the returning soldiers into the labor force without disruption, and generally save us from chaos and destitution.

But, instead, one of those miracles happened that don't come around very often: Congress argued so long over the plan that it was never implemented. So the U.S. economy had to fend for itself - and fend it did. The ex-servicemen found jobs, the economy took off upward, and the Great Depression was finally over after 16 years.

The Congressmen and pundits, never having studied economics seriously, were unaware of Say's Law.
Stated simply it is: Any new supply is accompanied by an equivalent new demand. In other words, any new entrant into the labor force also brings with himself a demand for products and services at least equal to the employment he seeks. So when 10 million more workers were available and seeking jobs, there was now new demand that was equal to 10 million people, requiring 10 million more people to produce the products and services necessary to meet that demand.
In short, a new job for each new worker.

The only problem involved was the matching of new workers to the new jobs that were created by the new demand of people who hadn't been in the market for new refrigerators when they were sitting in foxholes in places like Italy and Wake Island. How was the matching-up going to be handled?

Well - guess what - people who knew how to handle such things suddenly appeared out of nowhere, made their services available for a profit, and the entire transition was over within a year after the end of the war. The economy really boomed for the first time since 1929.

The Principle

The principle here is: Whatever the problem in a free market, it will be a profitable opportunity for someone who knows how to fix it.

Whatever difficulty you think might occur in a free market - people afraid to buy products for fear they're unsafe, no way to raise the money for some huge project, people insecure for some reason - it represents an opportunity for someone to solve the problem and make a profit for himself. The bigger the problem, the bigger the payoff for solving it, and the more people who will turn their attention to solving it - including a lot of very smart people who previously had not had an interest in the subject, especially not before there was a free market to reward them for taking an interest.

The transition to a society of legalized drugs is a different problem from the economic transition after World War II. But the solution is always the same:
more liberty and less government. Free people will sort things out because they have to in order to get what they want; politicians know only how to play political games.

We don't have to know how everything will be handled in a free society. All we have to know is that free people have much more incentive to solve problems than do politicians whose own livelihood and life savings are never on the line.


625 posted on 02/17/2005 3:53:03 PM PST by nsmart
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To: Always Right

"I can't imagine this plan being good for people on fixed incomes who will not have the added purchasing power from the eliminate Payroll Taxes, but will have to be faced with paying more for goods and services."

There is a lot about the FairTax that you can't envision, based on your posting history. People living on fixed incomes are, for the most part living on low incomes. Regardless of what the sales tax rate turns out to be, all their sales taxes up to the poverty level would be tax-free due to the rebate. That means if prices ONLY decline by 10%, then they would see a 10% increase in their purchasing power up to the poverty level. That sure seems like a benefit to me.

Of course, we will leave alone for now the debate over the magnitude of the price decline. Dr. Jorgenson says 22%, AR says 10%.


633 posted on 02/18/2005 4:44:46 AM PST by phil_will1
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