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To: ancient_geezer
Springer v. United States(1880), 102 U.S. 586
1880? That must bring back memories.



KNOWLTON v. MOORE, 178 U.S. 41 (1900)
1900, huh?



BROMLEY v. MCCAUGHN, 280 U.S. 124 (1929)
Property taxes? We aren't talking about property taxes.



Tyler v. U.S. 281 U.S. 497, 502 (1930)

  • An indirect tax is a tax laid upon the happening of an event,as distinguished from its tangible fruits.

Hmmm...

A tax laid upon the happening of an event, as distinguished from its tangible fruits, is an indirect tax which Congress, in respect of some events not necessary now to be described more definitely, undoubtedly may impose. If the event is death and the result which is made the occasion of the tax is the bringing into being or the enlargement of property rights, and Congress chooses to treat the tax imposed upon that result as a death duty, even though, strictly, in the absence of an expression of the legislative will, it might not thus be denominated, there is nothing in the Constitution which stands in the way.

So you misquoted and quoted out of context. This was about death taxes, not income taxes. So according to the standards you apply to me, you are a liar.



Stanton v. Baltic Mining Co.(1916), 240 U.S. 103:

Stanton v. Baltic Mining? You get this from a tax kook website?


House Congressional Record, March 27, 1943, pg. 2580:

So now you are claiming statements made on the House floor as evidence of fact?

This is typical of you, AG. You find a bunch of out of date rulings and assume time stood still for the last 70 years. Throw in the obligitory irrelevant cut & pastie and you've got a classic AG post.

Let's take a look a couple of more recent rulings:

GRAVES v. PEOPLE OF STATE OF NEW YORK, 306 U.S. 466 (1939)

The present tax is a non-discriminatory tax on income applied to salaries at a specified rate. It is not in form or substance a tax upon the Home Owners' Loan Corporation or its property or income, nor is it paid by the corporation or the government from their funds. It is measured by income which becomes the property of the taxpayer when received as compensation for his services; and the tax laid upon the privilege of receiving it is paid from his private funds and not from the funds of the government, either directly or indirectly. The theory, which once won a qualified approval, that a tax on income is legally or economically a tax on its source, is no longer tenable,

 
and a little more recent

OKLAHOMA TAX COMM'N v. CHICKASAW NATION, ___ U.S. ___ (1995)

The Tribe and the United States further urge us to read the Treaty in accord with the repudiated view that an income tax imposed on government employees should be treated as a tax on the government.

So, again, a tax on income is not a tax on the source of that income. Period.
574 posted on 02/16/2005 7:47:53 PM PST by Your Nightmare
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To: Your Nightmare

So, again, a tax on income is not a tax on the source of that income.

A useful point about the immediate source of payment of the compensation paid not being taxed where taxation in regard income received is concerned, the cites will be useful in other contexts. That however and has little to do with the fundamentals that I was expressing.

For your statement misses the prime issue, that the subject of an indirect tax is the activity or exchange engaged in and not the compensation used as factor in measuring the amount of the tax to be paid.

That activity or exchange is the essential, that "property incidental to ownership" that classifies a tax as indirect as opposed to direct (where tax is levied merely because of ones ownership.)

To not tax activities or exchanges the same for government as for the individual causes economic dislocations and is the essential reason it makes sense to tax government purchases of goods and services the same as you would household purchases of goods and services.

The case of purchasing services without a tax paid by government agencies, which government could legally arrange and you apparently advocate, creates a situation of net advantage to government agencies in purchasing resources away from the household's access to them at cost lower to government agencies than is available to the household which is taxed.

Essentially the government is able to offer a compensation higher, by the rate of the tax, to the service or goods provider outbidding the household in competition for the same pool of resources.

Not taxing government agencies operates to deplete resources from the markets reducing the supply available to the private sector. The same principle operates for goods as well as services drawing resources away from consumer applicaton and into government utilization.

579 posted on 02/16/2005 9:47:21 PM PST by ancient_geezer (Don't reform it, Replace it!!)
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