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To: fooman
Why was he told not to use sonar?

Attack subs never run on active in the open ocean (nor do boomers). The USS San Francisco was using sonar, but as per SOP he was using only passive. Undersea mountains do not make much noise just sitting there. That isn't the problem.

How can the maps be wrong after 50 years of navigation

The captains legitimate error was to rely on Navy charts that were not proven to be accurate. The Navy's error was to provide him with charts and insist that they were "official" and to be relied upon.

The error of the verdict is to imply that placing blame on the captain finishes the matter there and to be structured in such a way as to eliminate the possibility of employing an obviously good commander in training others.

45 posted on 02/13/2005 12:44:55 PM PST by Phsstpok ("When you don't know where you are, but you don't care, you're not lost, you're exploring.")
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To: Phsstpok
Attack subs never run on active in the open ocean (nor do boomers). The USS San Francisco was using sonar, but as per SOP he was using only passive. Undersea mountains do not make much noise just sitting there. That isn't the problem.

The article states "and that a sounding taken just minutes before the accident did not correlate with the charts that were in use at the time,"

I'm not that familiar with Navy technology, but what DOES one use to get a "sounding" for depth, if not sonar?

56 posted on 02/13/2005 1:23:39 PM PST by SauronOfMordor (We are going to fight until hell freezes over and then we are going to fight on the ice)
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To: Phsstpok

Passive sonar. right.

Why have there not been more incidents like this in 50 years? In blind man's bluff, we know about collisions with russian subs and lost H bombs off the coast of spain.


But nothing like this. The matter of charts should have been settled 30 years ago. There is just something missing here.

At the very least the captain could teach a lessons learned unit. I agree with you on that point.


77 posted on 02/13/2005 3:12:37 PM PST by fooman (Get real with Kim Jung Mentally Ill about proliferation)
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To: Phsstpok

I am impressed with his damage control after the incident, rescuing the sub, bringing it to the surface, thereby sparing the lives of the rest of the crew. That a sailor died is disheartening. Being trapped under the ocean is not my idea of fun. I can only imagine that there were some frightening moments for all onboard. I hope that the Captain’s overall response to the emergency is taken into consideration, as well as the charts that were officially supplied. It would be worth investigating the data contained in the charts with a comprehensive re-mapping of the area to be done NOW. If the official charts are severely at variance with updated data taken from a new survey of the area that should definitely be taken into consideration as well.

Having said all that, traveling at 30 or so knots in an area of indeterminate terrain sounds unnecessarily risky.

I hope the Truth comes out and all factors examined, including and "PC" culture which may have contributed to potentially faulty, potentially obsolete data.

> Maybe some lessons can be learned here so that this incident is not repeated?

Bottom line; thank God the rest of the crew made it. Condolences to the family of the sailor who lost his life serving his country.




139 posted on 02/14/2005 11:05:48 AM PST by Bald Eagle777 (The very stones cry out to the Heavens ...)
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