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To: snarks_when_bored; betty boop
Thank you so much for your reply!

I'll agree that we're individuals, two and not one. But, clearly, I'm over here and you're over there (spatial apartness), and we're both corporeal.

What you sense as spatial/temporal apartness is a manifestation of your vision and mind being limited to four dimensions, three spatial and one temporal.

What our apartness actually might be - viewed as corporeal form - is a different and quite fascinating subject.

What I'm asking is, how can two souls be distinguished if they're disembodied (lack corporeal characteristics and relations) and lack both spatial and temporal situatedness?

This would require a spirit experiment to recognize others outside space and time, like the thought experiment we just did. But not everyone is able to rapture - or has involuntarily raptured - beyond the physical.

Meditation (for me, intense worship God) is the start, but success cannot be guaranteed.

I testify to having experienced this both voluntarily and involuntarily. I recall betty boop having also experienced the same. That's two "eyewitnesses" with established credibility on the forum.

There are other witnesses throughout Scripture and history. Another term for it is ectasy - which is testifed to by many of the Catholic saints.

And I'm confident there are others here on the forum who have experienced this ecstasy or rapture - if they would care to chime in.

707 posted on 02/17/2005 10:29:27 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl
I'll agree that we're individuals, two and not one. But, clearly, I'm over here and you're over there (spatial apartness), and we're both corporeal.

What you sense as spatial/temporal apartness is a manifestation of your vision and mind being limited to four dimensions, three spatial and one temporal.

Well, there's as yet no evidence that there exist more than three spatial dimensions or that there exists more than one temporal dimension. But, even if there were, how would additional dimensions of either sort answer the question I'm asking you, which is this: How can souls be told apart if, as you assert, they're not spatial or temporal or corporeal at all?

What our apartness actually might be - viewed as corporeal form - is a different and quite fascinating subject.

Again, I'm seeking an explanation of how souls can be distinct if they lack corporeal form.

What I'm asking is, how can two souls be distinguished if they're disembodied (lack corporeal characteristics and relations) and lack both spatial and temporal situatedness?

This would require a spirit experiment to recognize others outside space and time, like the thought experiment we just did. But not everyone is able to rapture - or has involuntarily raptured - beyond the physical.

Don't the mods zot séances? (kidding)

Anway, ought I to conclude that you're unable to specify (in words) a principle of individuation for non-corporeal, non-spatial, non-temporal souls? Or have I just failed to discern it in your posts to me?

Best regards...

716 posted on 02/17/2005 11:36:46 AM PST by snarks_when_bored
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