[WildTurkey]

I'll buy these two, although Alamo-Girl sometimes leaves me scratching my head - she's never nasty.

I gave up on those two after they their philosophy statements on massless matter ... Total waste of time trying to follow their rantings.

[Long Cut]

Hey, I pretty much don't post to people who behave like jackasses (IMHO).If you don't care to engage them, no biggie. And if you DO wish to engage the wingnuts, go for it. My suggestion is to simply ignore the crazies, as mainstream science pretty much does until they do something dangerous.

Those with honest questions and open minds, we should respond with answers and decency. Those we have dealt with too many times should face the sound of crickets.

Yours and my opinion of just what constitutes a jackass might differ, and that's also cool. 'sall up to the individual as to whom they post to.

Wwe tried an "agreement of the willing" (check PH's homepage for a copy) backalong, but it fell apart when the crazies simply ignored it. Honest people on BOTH sides worked on it, including Alamo-Girl. It was done with the best of intentions, but the dishonest people made it a joke, as they are wont to do.

[gobucks]

I gave up on those two after they their philosophy statements on massless matter ... Total waste of time trying to follow their rantings.

You gave up? It would be far more precise to state you all have 'given up'. The vast majority of betty boops and AG's arguments, postings, observations, links, what have you, are essentially ignored. You tolerate both of these folks; you certainly don't engage them. Both of them cogently address ID stuff, scientifically. Both of them are given no scientific credibility whatsoever. They are given credit merely for having good manners; but they are simply misguided who need 'to read more' in the insightful words of one of you.

Not ONE person on your side has stated for the record that AG and/or BB has persuaded them that indeed, there is more to it than what Darwinists have provided.

Watching how they are treated by all of you has convinced me of just one thing: you don't really care what either think.

Let's face it: these evo threads are a religious debate in disguise between legalists and grace activists. Darwinism presents a rational way, based on 'laws' in his words, to morally justify living by any code that man decides to invent and codify; whoever is strong enough to impose it wins. There are no morals, just 'logic thru strength'.

Grace activists, otoh, reject out of hand that ANY code is more important than the obedience to Jesus Christ's commands. The biggest crime any creationist could be guilty of here is not lying ... it is telling the truth. It is a very inconvenient truth that the Darwin family inspired the most famous monster story of all time. It is a very inconvenient truth that Annie Darwin's death at a young age affected how Charles delievered 'Origins', and how he felt about God during the time he grieved for his daughter. Folks here don't like talking about inconvenient truths.

I would feel very, very differently about this, if in Public School, I was given the whole picture, and given the option of figuring this out myself. But no. The agenda was king, and inconvenient pieces of information were omitted. PH's link list .... the discussion of Annie Darwin is .... missing.

It is inconvenient to the argument.

[Alamo-Girl]

I gave up on those two after they their philosophy statements on massless matter ... Total waste of time trying to follow their rantings.

Er, the statements were mostly all physics...

For any Lurkers interested in a definition of "matter": post 2039 of the hysterical thread