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To: Vicomte13
The same logic, though, establishes that since Jesus certainly did NOT use the Massoretic text, since his citations of Scripture are not Massoretic but Septuagint, that the Massoretic Text is not Scripture either.

This is not necessarily the case either. Reread your comment. It is like saying revolvers are not proper on the police force because the Sgt. uses a semi-automatic 9mm Baretta. Selecting a tool useful to a job doesn't exclude others necessarily; but, it neither makes them official or unofficial unless someone of authority so states, etc.. You are assuming an aweful lot with no support whatever.

I certainly can establish, by the fact that whatever text Jesus is quoting, it is NOT the current Jewish text, that the current Jewish text - the Massoretic text - is NOT canon. If it was, Jesus would have used it. He didn't.

You can't say this either. For all you know, he used that text and the writers drew the same statements from the Greek to serve an audience that largely spoke Greek. The leap you are making here is of the same sort of fallacy you attempted to presume upon us above.

The Hebrew texts are canon as defined by the Israelites who had the authority to so decide the issue. Regardless of opinions as to what you think of this, it is the case. And absent any factual evidence to show a different canon, we have the Hebrew Canon of the OT and know what they decided it is and would be. Absent any factual evidence, that is the limit of authority that exists. To the extent that you overstep those limits, you abandone any claim for authority.

580 posted on 02/21/2005 8:46:30 PM PST by Havoc (Reagan was right and so was McKinley. Down with free trade. Hang the traitors high)
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To: Havoc

"The Hebrew texts are canon as defined by the Israelites who had the authority to so decide the issue. Regardless of opinions as to what you think of this, it is the case."

The apostles were Israelites every bit as much as the rabbis of Jamnia. And the rabbis of Jamnia no longer had specific divine authority, because by 100 AD, the Temple was gone. With Jesus' death in the 30s and the tearing of the veil in twain, there was no more authority in Judaism. The authority then reposed with the Church, to which Jesus had given the power of the keys and upon which the Holy Spirit now rested. The Church was composed of Jews, as was the Temple, still, which was destroyed, and the synagogue later. There was not a fixed, closed canon yet. The language Jesus uses when citing Scripture is the form found in the Greek texts, not the Hebrew texts.

We are going around and around in circles here, with no hope of resolution.


585 posted on 02/22/2005 6:20:34 AM PST by Vicomte13 (La nuit s'acheve!)
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