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To: Hoplite
American-Israeli relations go under the "what motivates him" part of Scheuer's comment.
Have you read Bin Laden's demands? He doesn't give a wit about the ARabvs in the West Bank or Gaza. The existance of Israel is the problem. Of course, there are many other issues that Bin Laden puts ahead of Israel and others like Andalusia behind it.

As to justifying Israeli expansion across it's 1947 borders, if that can be justified, then so too can Palestinian reclamation of areas which were previously empty land or owned by Palestinians prior to 1947-49, right?
1. Conquest is universal, at least in the short term. Long term, I put my faith in God.
2. Very little land was owned by Arabs, that they do not own today. In fact, individual Arabs own more land in 1949 Israel than Jews.
3. What makes the 1940 armistice lines any more permanent than that of 1967, 1979 or the 1923 Sykes Pikot treaty.

Of course not - this isn't about what's justified, its about what's possible given the current situation, which favors Israel, is maintained as the status quo by America as it is in our interest to maintain it that way, but is being used by some in Israel to carve out lebensraum at the expense of Palestinians, which is contrary to our interests.
1. Israel did just fine without US aid until 1973. We only got involved to counter the Soviets.
2. Lebenraum? Take a good look at 1921 "Palestine". 3/4 of it was carved out as an ARab state. We are squabling over the remaining 1/4 as Israel and Yesha.
As for American national interests, rewarding Islamist terrorism is not in them.

58 posted on 02/15/2005 12:33:03 AM PST by rmlew (Copperheads and Peaceniks beware! Sedition is a crime.)
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To: rmlew
Bin Laden specifically references American support for Israel on numerous occasions - he has three oft repeated complaints about the US:

1. US Occupation of Muslim lands.
2. US Support for non-Islamic governments in Islamic countries.
3. US support for Israel.

In his November 2004 statement, he ties the idea for the 9/11 attacks directly to our role in Israeli occupation of Palestine.

This isn't to say that I'm supporting some notion that we should base our policies on anything Bin Laden says - we're not the intended audience for his statements and we should continue to act in our own interests, independent of what he says. But it would be foolish of us to completely ignore what he's saying and avoid analysis of whether it's doing him any good amongst his target audience.

The crux of the matter here is that Israeli settlements in Palestine are against American interests - the Palestinians will never agree to them save under coercion, and a coerced peace is not a lasting one. As such, the settlements should get no support from America.

And don't kid yourself as to Israel's chances without American support - Israel has one of the most combat effective militaries in the world, but the logisitcal tail of that military is tied to the United States.

59 posted on 02/15/2005 10:13:29 AM PST by Hoplite
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