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To: Modernman
Tha analogy still fails due to the fact that no other country in the world, and certainly not the USA, recognized the legitimacy of the CSA.

You don't seem to understand. The presence or absence of another country recognizing the CSA presupposes that the country doing that is both really a country and really competent to make the judgment.

Now, there is only one Church. Jesus did not establish multiple churches, just one, all part of one body, His. So the analogy is not perfect because we live in a world with multiple countries, but only one True Church.

Any group which has valid apostolic succession (like the Orthodox) thereby has seven valid sacraments (like the Orthodox) and draws her power from the ONE Church headed by the Pope. If that group refuses to communicate with her head, she has rebelled, broken off, as Lee did against Lincoln, yet she remains fully Catholic in all but obedience.

Other groups which broke off without benefit of keeping valid apostolic succession (like the Lutherans and all their off-shoots, or the Anglicans) are simply ecclesial communities, a bunch of lay people who have only baptism and marriage as sacraments and are too at a loss for grace to fully recognize even those remnants of grace that come to them through the power of the Catholic Church.

Your claims fly in the face of reality

Your opinions are, fortunately, not reality. :)

69 posted on 02/07/2005 11:44:36 AM PST by skellmeyer
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To: skellmeyer
You don't seem to understand. The presence or absence of another country recognizing the CSA presupposes that the country doing that is both really a country and really competent to make the judgment.

Absolutely. What's your point?

Now, there is only one Church. Jesus did not establish multiple churches, just one, all part of one body, His. So the analogy is not perfect because we live in a world with multiple countries, but only one True Church.

That's the argument, of course. And only about half the world's Christians agree with your view that the RCC is that True Church.

Any group which has valid apostolic succession (like the Orthodox) thereby has seven valid sacraments (like the Orthodox) and draws her power from the ONE Church headed by the Pope. If that group refuses to communicate with her head, she has rebelled, broken off, as Lee did against Lincoln, yet she remains fully Catholic in all but obedience.

That is a RCC interpretation of history. The Orthodox Church would disagree and there is nothing that the RCC can do to prove that their's is the correct version of history. So sorry.

Other groups which broke off without benefit of keeping valid apostolic succession (like the Lutherans and all their off-shoots, or the Anglicans) are simply ecclesial communities, a bunch of lay people who have only baptism and marriage as sacraments and are too at a loss for grace to fully recognize even those remnants of grace that come to them through the power of the Catholic Church.

That is a RCC interpretation of history. The Protestant Christians would disagree and there is nothing that the RCC can do to prove that their's is the correct version of history. So sorry.

I can do this all day, of course, since you have nothing but your Church's opinions to back your arguments and I have nothing but mine to back mine.

Oh, and BTW, I was married in an RCC church and have full respect for your denomination. I see your way to be no more valid than mine, or that of Anglicans, Baptists, Lutherans etc.

71 posted on 02/07/2005 11:53:37 AM PST by Modernman (What is moral is what you feel good after. - Ernest Hemingway)
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