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Vote set today on lead ban to aid condors
Mercury News ^ | Feb. 04, 2005 | Paul Rogers and Glennda Chui

Posted on 02/04/2005 10:48:50 AM PST by neverdem

HUNTERS WOULD SWITCH TO COPPER AMMUNITION

Citing studies that show lead poisoning threatens the recovery of the California condor, a coalition of environmental groups has asked the state to ban hunters from using lead bullets or lead shot in the areas where condors live -- roughly from the Bay Area to Los Angeles.

The five-member state Fish and Game Commission, appointed by Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, is scheduled to vote on the issue today. Thousands of letters, calls and e-mails already have poured in from supporters and opponents.

If the commission rejects the controversial request, as its staff has recommended, environmentalists are considering lawsuits, and perhaps an attempt at a statewide ballot measure.

Supporters of the lead ban -- pointing to the fact Schwarzenegger put the condor on the new California quarter coin -- say taxpayers are spending millions trying to bring back North America's largest bird. But since 1997, environmentalists cite that at least nine condors have died from lead poisoning after eating dead deer and other animals that contain fragments of lead bullets. Dozens of others -- roughly one in three -- have shown elevated lead blood levels.

They note all 50 states banned lead shot for hunting ducks and other waterfowl a decade ago. And they contend that copper bullets work just as well, although they are more expensive than lead.

``Lead is an extremely toxic substance that we have sensibly removed from most of our environment, including water pipes, gasoline, paint and cooking utensils,'' said Jeff Miller, a spokesman for the Center for Biological Diversity in San Francisco, one of the groups pushing for a ban. ``In the interest of protecting imperiled wildlife and safeguarding public health, the state should move quickly to eliminate toxic lead ammunition.''

But many hunters are opposed.

They argue that lead bullets...

(Excerpt) Read more at mercurynews.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: California; US: District of Columbia
KEYWORDS: ammo; banglist; condors; environment; hunting; lead

1 posted on 02/04/2005 10:48:51 AM PST by neverdem
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To: neverdem

That is appropriate. An over sized vulture as the symbol of the California Government....


2 posted on 02/04/2005 10:53:10 AM PST by donmeaker (Burn the UN flag publicly.)
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To: neverdem

bang


3 posted on 02/04/2005 10:54:51 AM PST by satchmodog9 (Murder and weather are our only news)
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To: neverdem
HUNTERS WOULD SWITCH TO COPPER AMMUNITION

No, they should switch to Heavy-Shot...a new alloy that has a better density than lead. Us duck hunters have been using it for a couple years.

4 posted on 02/04/2005 10:55:01 AM PST by Clint N. Suhks
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To: neverdem

I understand that all copper bullets are already available. The US military rounds have tungsten in them, which is more effective, and more expensive than lead. A lot of shotgun rounds have bismuth (see ingredients on pepto-bismul) which is non toxic.

I have a few thousand lead rounds ready for these guys.


5 posted on 02/04/2005 10:55:07 AM PST by donmeaker (Burn the UN flag publicly.)
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To: farmfriend
BANG!
6 posted on 02/04/2005 10:55:21 AM PST by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: neverdem
As a rule I don't trust the environmentalists, but this doesn't look so bad. Lead IS toxic, and just removing it from gasoline as been a great improvement.

Copper slugs are only a little more expensive. I wouldn't want lead in my water pipes, and I don't want it in the general environment. Now about the problem(?) of lead being used to balance tires..........

7 posted on 02/04/2005 10:55:33 AM PST by scan59
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To: neverdem

I used to carry extra lead sinkers in my mouth when I went fishing as a kid. It never affected me affected me affected me.


8 posted on 02/04/2005 10:55:35 AM PST by Fierce Allegiance (Prepare for Fierce Allegiance day, Feb 9th.)
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To: neverdem

"...a coalition of environmental groups has asked the state to ban hunters..."

And that's the truth right there for the world to see.


9 posted on 02/04/2005 10:56:17 AM PST by PeterFinn (Why is it that people who know the least know it the loudest?)
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To: neverdem
Banning lead bullets is asinine.
10 posted on 02/04/2005 10:56:34 AM PST by Clint N. Suhks
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To: donmeaker

LOL!!!!


11 posted on 02/04/2005 10:57:41 AM PST by PeterFinn (Why is it that people who know the least know it the loudest?)
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To: scan59

Lead is better than copper as it is heavier and hits the target with more inertial energy.

This bill affects rifle ammo and a lead core copper jacketed bullet is the best round. The bullet should expand in a controlled way to best transfer the energy to the deer/elk/bear/ram and drop it. The expansion opens it up and lead is exposed.

All copper rounds exist and can be made to expand, but will weigh less than one made with lead. Then you have to use more velocity to give the same energy which means you go to a magnum or larger case loaded with more powder.

In all, I'd rather see more dead condors than put hunters through all this government regulation junk.


12 posted on 02/04/2005 11:10:20 AM PST by RicocheT
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To: neverdem

How many more billions are we going to spend on buzzards?


13 posted on 02/04/2005 11:15:55 AM PST by 7.62 x 51mm (• veni • vidi • vino • visa • "I came, I saw, I drank wine, I shopped")
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To: RicocheT
I have no idea why they would ban lead bullets, they almost always end up embedded somewhere like trees, dirt, the game etc. where condors or their prey won't ingest them. Plus I don't see where lead bullets will ever be in the condor's environment...what are they thinking.

Shot on the other hand, can be a problem since it usually falls to the ground. Heavy-Shot Is an alloy that compacts like lead, is denser than lead and hits harder than lead. If it wasn't so expensive I'd use it for Dove or skeet, it's that good.

14 posted on 02/04/2005 11:26:53 AM PST by Clint N. Suhks
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To: RicocheT
This bill affects rifle ammo and a lead core copper jacketed bullet is the best round. The bullet should expand in a controlled way to best transfer the energy to the deer/elk/bear/ram and drop it. The expansion opens it up and lead is exposed.

All copper rounds exist and can be made to expand, but will weigh less than one made with lead.

I haven't had any problems with .30-06 165g Barnes-X expanding, and they're solid copper hollow-points. Same goes for the .30-30 150g bullets.

And shame on those California Condors stealing game from the hunters. It's their own fault if they get sick from it. Darned thieves....

15 posted on 02/04/2005 11:31:04 AM PST by wyattearp (The best weapon to have in a gunfight is a shotgun - preferably from ambush.)
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To: scan59; All
Do lead bullets continue to be a hazard after they land?

What about .22 cal. rimfire ammo?

16 posted on 02/04/2005 11:52:10 AM PST by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: neverdem

Who are all these "hunters" who are shooting animals and then just leaving the carcasses lying around? Make leaving them lying around illegal, but not using lead shot.


17 posted on 02/04/2005 11:59:04 AM PST by GovernmentShrinker
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To: GovernmentShrinker
Who are all these "hunters" who are shooting animals and then just leaving the carcasses lying around?

Some are varmint hunters. Others hunt for meat, but they didn't shoot an immediately fatal shot. The wounded prey escapes only to die later, and the hunter loses the trail.

18 posted on 02/04/2005 12:45:32 PM PST by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: neverdem
When I first read the headline I thought it said "condoms". A natural for CA dems...
19 posted on 02/04/2005 1:21:20 PM PST by boris (The deadliest weapon of mass destruction in history is a Leftist with a word processor)
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To: scan59
"As a rule I don't trust the environmentalists, but this doesn't look so bad. Lead IS toxic, and just removing it from gasoline as been a great improvement."

In what?

It has been shown that most of the lead coming from tailpipes falls to the ground and becomes part of the dirt. About the only "danger" the anti-lead forces could muster was that children would make mud pies from the dirt and eat it (no kidding!). Removing lead from gasoline increased the cost of gas and reduced the supply. It also placed onerous restrictions on refiners and owners of "classic" cars for dubious "health" "benefits".

BTW, the reason for using tetraethyl lead in gasoline is that it increases the octane number (which is basically equivalent to knock resistance) and allows higher compression ratios. This in turn allows more power and/or higher fuel efficiency.

--Boris

20 posted on 02/04/2005 1:25:07 PM PST by boris (The deadliest weapon of mass destruction in history is a Leftist with a word processor)
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