Normal Service Resumed (Let's Tell Peggy What We Think)

It is patently obvious that you don't know nor understand what "MESSIANIC" means,nor that there is a mental illness known as THE MESSIANIC COMPLEX. The term refers to people who see themselves as Christlike and are out to 1)save the world,2)save/convert people through extraordinary means to whatever they believe in 3)see themselves as the SECOND COMING.

Now,using that knowledge,apply it to what Peggy claimed the Inaugural speech was and by inference,to President Bush.SEE? Once you actually understand the meaning of a word/s,instead of guessing,you are no longer in the dark...just assuming that you understand what has been written. That's why there are dictionaries for people with poor vocabularies! DON'T GUESS AT TYHE MEANING OF WORDS,LOOK THEM UP!

As to post #111,that was written by someone who neither read the book nor saw the movie and was making an UNEDUCATED GUESS. Ergo,it's irrelevant,unsubstansive,and invalid!

Peggy LOVED the Inaugural speech,right after it was delivered;12 hours later,it was filled with too many references to GOD and a week later,it had morphed into a mental delusion. She's a hack! Go read the definition (I posted it to this thread) of that word and learn the meaning before you get back to me. ;^)

I wrote a column for my college newspaper many decades ago; I'm an even better writer today.Yes,I could write one now.:-)

// re post 261

Anchor: And thats the headlines for today. Over to you Fen.

Fen: Thanks Jim. I'm standing here with Forgiven_Sinner, who was just attacked by a Noonan Buzzard. Forgiven, you appear to have weathered two solo attacks relatively unscathed. Tell our viewers - did you expect such ridicule for your opinion - and will you brave the wastelands of Noonan-threads in the future?

In the interest of full disclosure, it should be noted that you have enough of a jones for Noonan that you've got an image of her on your home page.

I've read this thread, and you are much too quick to jump offside in her defense.

She's a big girl. She stepped in it in two successive columns that were ridiculously petty, and will have to work her way back up on the pedestal.

She ain't there yet.

In the interest of full disclosure, it should be noted that you have enough of a jones for Noonan that you've got an image of her on your home page.

Ahem - the only female on my profile that I have a "jones" for is Jenny Hewitt. And India Cat. The Noonan Buzzards ran with that meme last thread, claiming the pic of Noonan somehow marks me as a love-torn sycophant that is easily dismissed. Sigh. Guess that means I have the hots for Malkin too?

I've read this thread, and you are much too quick to jump offside in her defense.

Deliberately so - to minimize the frequency of personal fouls by the other team. They get flustered when I do unto them as they do onto other FReepers. Do you know of a better approach? [other than wading through the vulgar slurs, ignoring the bait of the trolls, dodging the personal attacks, etc]

She's a big girl. She stepped in it in two successive columns

I agree. I have said as much in the last set of Noonan-bashing threads.

..that were ridiculously petty

Thats a stretch. Can you support that opinion with examples?

and will have to work her way back up on the pedestal. She ain't there yet

Not concerned with that. My point is that it would be nice to have a civil discussion about Noonan's articles here at FR. She's a conservative, one of us, but these threads are more akin to the senseless and humourous drivel we post on a Dowd or Kennedy piece. There seems to be a mob of Noonan Buzzards that hog the carcass and drive off anyone posting favorable comments about her work. To disagree with them is to invite a bullying attack by the mob.

I've gotten several PMs from Pro-Noonan Freepers warning me off. They've given up on these threads and advise me to do the same. Is that what FR is all about? Any ideas you have would be appreciated.

"It is patently obvious that you don't know nor understand what "MESSIANIC" means . . ."

"Messianic", of course, refers to the Messiah, Jesus Christ. If something is called Messianic, it is like Jesus Christ in some way. What was referent of this adjective?

Quoting from Peggy: "This was gentle but pointed, more specific and less messianic, than the recent inaugural--and therefore less open to misinterpretation." So she called the inaugural address Messianic. Here is actually a compliment, whether she intended it or not (I don't think she did--she meant it, as you inferred, as an criticism--reaching for a Messianic kingdom in the here and now--unrealistic and impractical, in her view.) But the compliment is that President Bush's vision is Christ-like--which all Christians' vision should be.

". . . nor that there is a mental illness known as THE MESSIANIC COMPLEX. The term refers to people who see themselves as Christlike and are out to 1)save the world,2)save/convert people through extraordinary means to whatever they believe in 3)see themselves as the SECOND COMING.

Now,using that knowledge,apply it to what Peggy claimed the Inaugural speech was and by inference,to President Bush.SEE? Once you actually understand the meaning of a word/s,instead of guessing,you are no longer in the dark...just assuming that you understand what has been written. "

I think you are severely misunderstanding Peggy's use of messianic. The referent is not President Bush, but his inaugural. And messianic is NOT synonymous with "messianic complex", a psychological disorder, as you pointed out.

Now if I believed Peggy said President Bush had a messianic complex, I would be incredulous, since that is illogical charge that would be made by a non-Christian, and I believe Peggy to be a Christian. I don't think it is possible for a Christian to have a Messianic complex, for that would be the opposite of what a Christian is to be--a humble worshiper of God rather than of self. If Peggy made such a statement, I would conclude she is not a Christian or does not believe President Bush is a Christian.

Fortunately, there is no such contradiction. Peggy never mentions a messianic complex, but uses it to describe the inaugural.

To check myself, I looked up the definition as you recommended:

messianic adjective

1 FORMAL relating or belonging to a messiah: - He announced the imminent arrival of a messianic leader.

2 describes a religious group which believes that a leader will or has come who has the power to change the world and bring peace: - a messianic cult/movement/sect

3 describes a speech or style which is very persuasive and full of emotion: - She talks about her work with a messianic zeal.

From: http://www.freesearch.co.uk/dictionary/messianic

I'm glad I did. It's clear she's using the word in the 3rd sense, which I would take as complimentary, regardless of how she intended it.

Please explain how you get "messianic complex" out of "messianic inaugural".

Her mealy-mouthed pandering now is almost worse than the trash she wrote about the inaugural speech. Obviously, she doesn't have the courage of her convictions any more...that, or she's in the throes of menopause.

"Fen: Thanks Jim. I'm standing here with Forgiven_Sinner, who was just attacked by a Noonan Buzzard. Forgiven, you appear to have weathered two solo attacks relatively unscathed. Tell our viewers - did you expect such ridicule for your opinion - and will you brave the wastelands of Noonan-threads in the future? "

Thanks for supporting me. This is a rather mild disagreement compared to some of the X rated flame wars I've seen on Usenet, or even some of the religious forums I've seen. Review the Predestination threads if you want to see real vituperation and a lack of listening.

I'm interested in understanding people and bringing clarity to discussions so that truth and right judgment will prevail.

We'll see what happens.

Thanks for supporting me. This is a rather mild disagreement compared to some of the X rated flame wars I've seen on Usenet

No prob. And yes, I remember Usenet :) Some really wild flame war, esp in August.

Well,if we take the third definition you found (which is somewhat different to what's in Webster's Encyclopedia Unabridged Dictionary of the English Language)Then Peggy has either 1)misused the word 2)doesn't understand the meaning of the word 3)doesn't like the fact that President Bush gave a VERY persuasive Inaugural speech....SPEECH,not,as you say "inaugural".

That makes it even worse! What,she wanted the president to give speeches that are NOT "persuasive" and inspiring? Is she then implying that the STU was boring and uninspiring and that's why she liked it?

Any way you want to slice this,Peggy still comes out on the dead wrong end of it,no matter how hard you to to explain it away!