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To: JFK_Lib; jan in Colorado; appalachian_dweller

Jan is right, you sound different today, this is not meant as a criticism, merely an observation, but I like the change;0)

The words of the OT are God's words, as interpreted by man. Since man is fallible, the interpretation may be faulty. Additionally, what we refer to as the OT has been translated by man, and again, the fallibility thing, with possible mistakes made.

One mistake was previously noted, concerning the Commandment
"Thou shalt not KILL."
which should have read
"Thou shalt not MURDER."

The difference being in motivation: MURDER is pre-meditated, plotted and usually part and parcel to another broken commandment: stealing, adultery, idolatry, etc., generally unjustified.

Killing is spontaneous, protective (self or family defense), military, etc., and generally justified.

A simple little mistake and the meaning changes.

It is still God's word, BUT the accuracy is faulty.

Is it possible that Samuel used God to justify what happened?
The wholesale slaughter of the enemy was in keeping with the abhorrent practice of "Blood Revenge" prevalent among the pastoral, seminomadic tribes of the region, such as the Hebrews and their enemies, saying it was "ordered by God" absolves the doers of guilt, AND shows the power of the God of the Hebrews over the idols of the pagan enemies.

ALL th words of God are reported by others, in the NT, God, in the persona of his son Jesus, speaks directly to all of us, and his words and methods are different.

Jesus came to absolve mankind of millennia of sin and eternal damnation, but his word had to be followed to attain salvation, correct?

Perhaps God was angry over his representation, at times, in the OT as a jealous, angry and vengeful God, and decided to try and save those who portrayed Him that way by sending the Messiah.

As for Samuel, Saul and the Amalakites being today, and having the UN arrest them for their crimes, I was going to laugh - look at how much the Un helped the Tutsis in Rwanda http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_Genocide, or helped stopped the Serbians Ethnic Cleansing in Bosnia, or stopped the Killing Fields in Cambodia, then I realized that we were talking about stopping the HEBREWS and realized the Un would definitely tried to stop them!

As I said, God cannot evolve, He is, and always will be God.

What evolves is OUR perception, OUR belief.

God is an all-perfect, all-knowing, all-loving, all-powerful being:
**if he wanted the Amalekites completely destroyed why rely on man to do the job?

**Being omnipotent , God is incapable of anger, jealousy and vengence since they are "sins" and it would make God less than perfect. He can still feel disappointment, sorrow, and disgust, I believe.

An angry God would have killed Adam and Eve and started again; a disappointed God would banish them and hope they would learn the error of their ways, do you understand my point?

Islam is closer to the OT than the NT, more Judaic than Christian, because it relys on man's word to say what God wants, and the priests/imams retain control of the interpretation of the word.

The OT and the Koran were written for people that were Middle Eastern,largely illiterate and dependent on oral traditions; in Christianity, the NT tells the story of God made manifest on earth; a God that came to bring man back into the fold, to reconcile with the God they had disappointed, the God who made a great sacrifice so that Man would have access to Paradise once again.


267 posted on 02/04/2005 8:31:29 PM PST by Former Dodger (I thought ABORTION was murder and FUR was a Woman's right to choose.)
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To: Fred Nerks

268 posted on 02/06/2005 3:12:10 PM PST by jan in Colorado ("...and you shall know the truth,and the truth shall make you free" John 8:32)
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To: Former Dodger
"God is an all-perfect, all-knowing, all-loving, all-powerful being: **if he wanted the Amalekites completely destroyed why rely on man to do the job? God chooses to work through the agency of mankind. Why? I can only suppose it is to bring us to spiritual maturity while living with the consequences of our evil. **Being omnipotent , God is incapable of anger, jealousy and vengence since they are "sins" and it would make God less than perfect. He can still feel disappointment, sorrow, and disgust, I believe. " Interesting post. I agree with most of it, but the text I quoted above I cannot wholely concur with. Anger is not in itself a sin. It is a natural reaction to provocation, but a foolish man loses his temper, displayed as wrath. A man full of wrath is someone to avoid, but not the same catgegory as a pervert, liar murderer, etc, though it can lead to murder/manslaughter if not held in check. But there is a form of anger, called 'righteous anger' that I think God does posess and sometimes displays through the natural unfolding of events in our world. The same goes for jealousy. As a minor point, omniscience and omnipotence have nothing to do with righteousness or holiness and do not prevent evil in ones character.
273 posted on 02/07/2005 12:47:48 PM PST by JFK_Lib
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