Posted on 02/02/2005 7:12:36 AM PST by Sunshine55
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice on Tuesday held out the possibility of U.S. support to train and equip Palestinian forces as she seeks to promote Middle East peace on a visit to the region next week.
Making her first trip abroad as secretary of state, Rice will meet Israeli and Palestinian officials in Jerusalem and the West Bank on Monday to try to capitalize on what Washington sees as a new chance for peace after Yasser Arafat's death.
The disputed shooting of a Palestinian girl in the Gaza Strip on Monday illustrated the fragility of the relative calm since the Palestinian icon died and triggered mortar fire by Arab militants on a nearby Jewish settlement.
Rice said Arafat's successor, Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, had demonstrated the will to clamp down on violence by quickly deploying security forces in the Gaza Strip, where militant groups have adopted a tacit truce.
"It's not perfect, but they have made some progress" on getting control of the disparate Palestinian security forces and on cracking down on violence against Israelis, Rice told Reuters and Agence France-Presse.
"Obviously the Palestinians are going to need help in terms of training and equipping their new security forces and I am sure that there will be ways that we might be involved in that," she said.
Rice suggested Washington could also help the Palestinians develop democratic institutions and, eventually, support reconstruction if Israel carries through with its plan to close all 21 Jewish settlements in Gaza and four in the West Bank.
"What I hope to do when I go there is to try and sustain -- help to sustain -- the momentum that they (the Israelis and Palestinians) have clearly developed over the last several weeks," she added.
(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.netscape.cnn.com ...
Oy
Can we please keep this discussion at a rational level?
Do we really need to do a search on the number of times those words have been posted on this matter, or immigration, or government spending, or anything else?
As to the statement.....which I have repeatedly asked you to read without bias......there is no statement of time involved. Unless you believe that all Palestinians are evil for all time, you cannot say there is no circumstance under which they can be safely armed (as the Iraqis presently are), ever in the future.
Fine - let's arm and train Palestinians, BUT only after putting before the Palestinian people a referendum that they must approve declaring Israel's right to exist and that the Arab world must recognize the State of Israel and right of Jews to live in peace with all their neighbors.
And with your final paragraph, you ARE blaspheming, and revealing your own personal weakness.
OK... Whatever.
There is no point in trying to rationally discuss a subject with one as irrational as you clearly are, so consider this conversation over.
Here's a better definition of irrational: "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -Theodore Roosevelt.
I think that would apply to trying to find any excuse to explain away and justify what the President and his Administration does, aptly illustrated here.
See ya...
What Abbas says in English for the cameras is more than likely not the same as he is saying in Arabic to his own people. He has called Israel "The Zionist Enemy". Palis will back other Palis at the end of the day, and that includes supporting Hamas.
But there can be a peaceful enough arrangement so that less innocent Israelis will be murdered in buses and cafes and pizza parlors.
The Palestinian people have been brainwashed for a very long time. It may BE naive of me, but I don't believe that Palestinian mothers really want their kids strapping bombs on themselves in suicide/murders. I believe that there are many more Palestinians who want to be able to raise their families in peace than some of you do. I believe that the Palestinians were created in God's image as much as I am.
And I have seen this administration do enough things that "no US administration has" ever been able to do, and know of their unswerving support of Israel, to not react to this statement with too much alarm.
Sh*t likes this make me want to vomit. Here, SoS Rice is offering to train & equip Palestinian troops. Currently we are equipping and training an Iraqi army, police force and border patrol personnel yet this frickin administration claims they don't have the funds to hire and equip the 2000 authorized new border patrol officers here in the USA.
I never thought in all my years that I would even think, much less say that at times like this I'm ready to vent my anger and join some radical anarchist protest group next time they demonstrate just so I can swear at the people in power and fling rocks because words seem to be falling on deaf ears.
And if they support Hamas, they will not be backed by this administration. I may be naive, but Condi Rice most certainly isn't.
I completely agree with Teddy.
And neither you, nor anyone else, has never seen me say, or act otherwise.
Good article/sumary:
The "Religious Left": 1933 - 2005--Jan Markell
Olive Tree Ministries, Inc. - www.olivetreeviews.org
I have reported in other commentaries my frustration with the "religious Left." At one time I ministered in their churches--Lutheran, Presbyterian, Methodist, Congregationalist, and more--and something didn't make sense. While their average church attendance was in the thousands, there were never more than a dozen who came to my adult forums between services. And most came to argue. They didn't want to hear my kind of a message: They wanted to hear about poverty, equal rights, the "cause of the Palestinians," etc. To be sure, there were individuals within each of those churches--the ones who invited me, usually--who were saddened by this fact.
I was a fish out of water gasping for air so in the mid-1980's I gave up my effort to bring them truth. I have concluded, however, that there isn't much that has changed with the "religious Left" since the l980's or even all the way back to 1933. Let me illustrate.
We have recently witnessed the 60th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz, the concentration camp that claimed so many lives during the Holocaust. The "religious Left" had some complicity back then as well. Many of those churches, both Protestant and Catholic, turned a blind eye to the plight of those being gassed and starved. A few denominations and individual churches co-operated in it all because they had been seduced by Hitler.
There were denominations and individual churches that refused this kind of co-operation to be sure. They would not put Hitler's picture on their wall or altar as they were commanded to do. I write about this in my book about Holocaust survivor Anita Dittman. Her pastor from the Lutheran Confessional Church ignored the Nazis sitting in his service and aided the Jews of his community as well. Some of them paid with their life. My book, "Trapped in Hitler's Hell," is available on my Web site, www.olivetreeviews.org (go to Our Products), or through my print newsletter.
But during WWII, many of Europe's and America's "religious leaders" were pre-occupied with America's "economic and social agenda" as the "religious Left" is today on both continents. Albert Palmer, President of Chicago Theological Seminary said Americans should be solving the problems of social and economic justice at home rather than condemning Germany through a haze of Allied propaganda."
Methodist leader Ernest Fremont Title claimed that Nazism could be overcome non-violently which is vaguely reminiscent of John Kerry's wish to fight a "kinder, gentler war" with Islamofascism. Thus churches and denominations were protesting wars then as they do now.
As news of the destruction of Jews in Europe reached the American press, America's Christian leadership failed to even lobby for immigration reform. Thus, from 1933 to 1941 more than 100 anti-Semitic groups appeared in the U.S., many with "Christian overtones."
How is the "religious Left" operating today? Most of these items and much more are posted on their Web sites, including the National Council of Churches--www.nccusa.org. Here are a few illustrations:
* The United Church of Christ and Disciples of Christ today have endorsed the World Council of Churches' (WCC) program to "implement their plan to end the violence of the occupation of Palestine."
* The National Council of Churches (NCC) insists that hundreds of Palestinians in prison, mostly for terror-related crimes, be released by Israel for they have been "wrongfully detained."
* Last Fall over 50,000 Evangelical churches observed the "International Pray for the Peace of Jerusalem Day." The WCC and NCC had their "Day of Prayer for Peace." They quoted Arafat-loyalist Hanan Ashrawi on a PA Web site as she spoke about Middle East peace, a subject she knows nothing about. There was no mention that on that same PA Web site was footage of two PA TV programs showing official religious leaders openly calling for the genocide of Jews.
* The Presbyterian Church USA (PCUSA) openly opposes "Christian Zionism" as do many other members of the "religious Left." They do not like the theology that goes with it--that is, Israel's key present and future role. They say that what comes with the territory is the sentiment that Christian Zionists have no concern for the plight of the Palestinians. Christians show favor to Israel based on a phony "biblical mandate" which ignores the basic rights of the people who are also made in the image of God--the Palestinians. Christian Zionists invite contempt for fellow Arab Christians in the Middle East. Note to the PCUSA: It's not Israel or Christian Zionists making things tough for Palestinians or Palestinian Christians. It's their own leaders!
* The PCUSA is urging their people to divest all funds from Israel due to her illegal occupation of the land. They denounce Dispensationalist theology (which has been dropped by most churches today for their new "seeker approach"). This theology supposedly "divides" and "focuses excessively on Israel." And since most Israelis favor a two-state solution, i.e., a Palestinian state, Christian Zionists are being anti-Semitic for going against their wishes. How convoluted can thinking get today?
* All churches comprising the "religious Left"--both Protestant and Catholic--embrace "Replacement Theology"; that is, that the Church is the new Israel. Israel blew it and now the Church reigns. That makes it much easier to embrace and justify some of the issues presented here.
So how much has changed in the climate of the organized church since 1933? My conclusion is, very little--except for the "remnant." May your numbers increase. You brighten my day and remind me that God will always reveal truth to those who earnestly seek it. There really is a sub-set of believers who are more interested in being biblically correct than politically correct, and in doing what is right rather than what is popular or trendy theology. You apply this across the board, not just on this particular issue. You stand up for what is right and speak about it at all costs. And that is what we are commanded to do, for the entire book of Jude is about "contending for the faith"--standing up for truth.
Also note the Web site of White House correspondent Bill Koenig, www.watch.org, who is tackling many of these issues.
Awaiting His return,
Jan Markell
Secretary Rice: Palestinian's need to fight terror is unconditional
Notice that you used the word "less" and not "no". This means that even you do not believe that the attacks would end. What makes you think by making it easier to conduct murderous attacks that it improves the prospects for peace?
And I have seen this administration do enough things that "no US administration has" ever been able to do, and know of their unswerving support of Israel, to not react to this statement with too much alarm.
I do not question the support of Israel. I question the wisdom of stating that you are going to give back lands conquered in war and cut Israel in half. It is not meant to be an alarmist statement. It is merely a fact.
There are indications of what they want. Well they had elections for the PA council in Gaza recently and Hamas won 75 of 118 seats. We'll see what happens in the West Bank elections. Abu Mazen has been forthright in his refusal to disarm Hamas. He expressed his continued support for the PLO Charter and Phased Plan, which call for the destruction of Israel and explain how they intend to do it during his campaign. He was actively supported by terrorists. Marwan Barghouti was his only serious challenger, had he continued to run. Mustafa Barghouti, the "peace" candidate, got about 19%. Your comparison to Iraq would be valid only if we'd allowed al Zarqawi to field a slate, which we didn't. IMO before rearming the PA police, they need to show their intent to arrest and disarm terrorists, which they've "agreed" but refused to do.
Yeah, it's not like the US and Israel haven't armed them before. It's hard to ignore the fact that they've always used their arms and training to kill Jews.
I guess our differences lie in whether or not these words would result in 'making it easier to conduct murderous attacks.' I just don't believe that this administration would ever make a move that would actually do that.
So let's arm them better and train them to kill Israelis even more efficiently? How about giving that 20 mil we just handed to the Palis over to Israel, and helping to equip and train the Israeli army better (though that would be hard since they are an excellent fighting force) so that they can better defend themselves against the enemy?
How about pressuring "our friends" the Arabs to give the Palis a chunk of their land since they support them so strongly?
I would have to have more evidence, though, that what the Palestinians have said they want is what they would actually want should they be able to express it without reprisal from the terrorists among them.
I do not pretend to have any real expertise here, and have voiced my views that this administration would never enable terrorists or murderers that would do harm to Israel, so I will bow out of this discussion.
I'll second that! Mark my word, this will come back to bite her.
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