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To: JulieRNR21
Ok, I'm going to try this one time.... again.

There is more bad and incorrect information running around on this story than anything else I have seen in years.

Here is the real world legal situation. THIS IS NOT A POPULARITY OR EQUITY CASE, THIS IS A LEGAL MATTER.

This is first and foremost a case of who has the right to speak for Terri. Is it her husband or her parents? The law says it is her husband. Is he a hairball who is living with another woman, had a kid with her, etc? Yes, he is all that and worse. But that does not change the legal situation that he is able, under the law, to speak for her, TO THE EXCLUSION OF ALL OTHERS, including her parents. Her parents have tried to get the courts to set aside the husband's wishes and substitute theirs. There is little precedent to do that. He has spousal rights, period.

Secondly, this has been a PR disaster from Day One. All the claims of a horrible judge, unconstitutional decisions, claims of attempts at murder, huge conflicts of interest, have only served to anger the entire legal system and local residents.

The far-out "It's ok to murder abortionists" crowd and some guy from Lakeland who wants to act as Terri's lay lawyer and bring the matter before the UN are some of the more rational people involved. Others have waved pictures of aborted babies at first and second graders from a school near her nursing home. How is that expected to help Terri?

They brought in "psychic healers" (con men) from somewhere in the midwest. Their idea was tell tell Terri, via speakerphone, "Wake up, they're trying to kill you."

They introduced a videotape supposedly showing her somewhat visually tracking a balloon for about 30 seconds, but then, when the entire tape was shown, it showed her have no contact with anything for the entire 45 minutes of the tape, except the 30 seconds.

Sorry, the results speak for themselves. I do not demean the desire of these people to help Terri, but when public support was at 77% when this matter began and is now at 28%, someone is doing something very foolish.

For some "supporters" this has been all about face time on TV, not Terri's survival.


Besides a PR disaster, this has been a legal disaster. Her parents were outlawyered from day one. They were always going to lose on "law." The lawyers should have it an "equity" style matter from day one. Equity deals with the concept of, regardless of what the law says, what is right? I would have been arguing that we give death penalty sentences every benefit of the doubt. Why aren't we doing that in this case?

Please do not get me wrong, I am on Terri's side completely. It's just that as a lawyer and former network news reporter, I have seen the vast foolishness perpetrated in this case. .... and yes I have volunteered to help. On three separate occasions, "someone" from the team was going to call me back in 30 minutes. Callbacks? Zero.

Let this be a lesson for all of us. Dedication and belief are not enough. Terri's supporters are exceptionally dedicated. They are unquestionably correct on moral, ethical and equity grounds. Unfortunately, the actions of some of them have had the exact opposite effect of that which was desired.

If one disagrees with that statement, then ask yourself, why are we still losing. The answer isn't bad judges or anything like that. Losers say that in every case.

The answer is; something different must be done, and until it is, Terri will continue to slip away from us, physically and legally.

527 posted on 02/06/2005 6:28:49 PM PST by MindBender26 (Having your own XM177 E2 means never having to say you are sorry......)
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To: MindBender26

You're right: everything about the Terri Schiavo case has been a tragedy of errors! And FL will not permit corrections for errors made in the trial court.


532 posted on 02/06/2005 6:33:45 PM PST by Theodore R.
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To: MindBender26
Oh, you're back. (*)The guy with all the wonderful PR skills. Have you donated any of 'em to save Terri yet?

Why not post a few samples - show us what you've got and how it should be done, OK?

And speaking of taglines I'll say this: There really must be such a thing as synchronicity.
536 posted on 02/06/2005 6:45:07 PM PST by Wampus SC
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To: MindBender26
"Here is the real world legal situation. THIS IS NOT A POPULARITY OR EQUITY CASE, THIS IS A LEGAL MATTER."

Secondly, this has been a PR disaster from Day One.

If it isn't a POLUARITY issue, why do you drag Public Relations into it? The term in itself means swaying the mind as your handle implies.

537 posted on 02/06/2005 6:50:41 PM PST by bjs1779 ("I fed Terri small mouthfuls of Jello, which she swallowed and enjoyed immensely" Cna H.Law 1997)
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To: MindBender26
"Unfortunately, the actions of some of them have had the exact opposite effect of that which was desired.

If one disagrees with that statement, then ask yourself, why are we still losing. The answer isn't bad judges or anything like that. Losers say that in every case."

To say that there aren't bad judges in many places, including those in Florida who are working on this case, is ridiculous. Particularly when a case becomes political most judges will make the politically correct ruling or back those who have the greatest politcial connections. I know the hard way, from personal experience.

Judge Greer made the decision to stop feeding Terri (there is NO plug to pull) based solely on hearsay. How pray tell, is that a good decision? How is it that someone who is living with someone else and having children with them (as if they are married), someone who broke the marriage vows, is permitted by law to make decisions about that person. You will find case law as well as statutes that refute your point.

There is evidence that Judge Greer REFUSES to consider, such as the bone scans taken of Terri in 1991 showing her with broken bones ALL OVER her body.

And as far as the video is concerned, as recently as January, Terri's new Female lawyer visited her and was stunned by her alertness and level of awareness. She left Terri's room, enraged that anyone would even dream of putting her to death. And an article was written about her reaction.

There may have been some PR mistakes made in this case, I haven't been involved from the beginning.

But if this case was lost it was lost primarily because of ineffective lawyering and poor judicial decisions.

Where have you been, anyway? Are you a modern day version of Rip Van Winkle??? There has been a progressive problem with activist judges, only interested in promoting their own agenda, for many years in this country. Most conservatives have accepted this reality and are well aware of the situation. Why are you so ignorant about it?

543 posted on 02/06/2005 7:22:09 PM PST by TOUGH STOUGH (If starvation & dehydration are painless, make them the method of preference for Capital Punishment.)
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To: MindBender26
There is more bad and incorrect information running around on this story than anything else I have seen in years.

Correct. Like Terri is comatose, brain-dead and PVS. Like only religious fanatics are interested in protecting her life. Like this is a political volley-ball. All of that schmutz is totally untrue and you can thank the press for it, not the people on these boards.

Here is the real world legal situation. THIS IS NOT A POPULARITY OR EQUITY CASE, THIS IS A LEGAL MATTER.

Also correct. According to the Florida Statutes (which have been posted here time and again) it is ILLEGAL for the guardian of an incapacitated ward to deny proportionate and ordinary services such as food, water, shelter, clothing, hygiene and treatment for infection. When Schiavo did first in 1993, the court and the state had an obligation to REMOVE HIM as guardian. That's the law.

This is first and foremost a case of who has the right to speak for Terri. Is it her husband or her parents? The law says it is her husband.

See above. Additionally, as he has abandoned his marriage and does not qualify as guardian under Florida's guardianship laws, the courts have an obligation to REMOVE HIM as guardian. He is not acting lawfully and that is the beginning and end of it.

Secondly, this has been a PR disaster from Day One. All the claims of a horrible judge, unconstitutional decisions, claims of attempts at murder, huge conflicts of interest, have only served to anger the entire legal system and local residents.

Tough *&%$#@. The judge is ruling contrary to law, over-reaching the law, legislating from the bench and acting as both proxy and monitor of proxy - thereby violating the separation of powers doctrine. When people view this case in the legal aspects, they cannot POSSIBLY say there is nothing amuck. Terri has been denied due process, the judge has acted as an advocate for the guardian, she has been denied an independent Guardian ad Litem and the list goes on.

The far-out "It's ok to murder abortionists" crowd and some guy from Lakeland who wants to act as Terri's lay lawyer and bring the matter before the UN are some of the more rational people involved. Others have waved pictures of aborted babies at first and second graders from a school near her nursing home. How is that expected to help Terri?

Where are you getting your information? Have you been to a single gathering? I have been to all of them. There are some religious folk, some disabled folk, some folk who don't give a damn about anything but the possible murder of a young woman by removing a basic, human need without her permission.

They brought in "psychic healers" (con men) from somewhere in the midwest. Their idea was tell tell Terri, via speakerphone, "Wake up, they're trying to kill you."

Another bunch of bunk. They had no psychic healer. They had a therapist who was using verbal stimulation to coax Terri in a positive way. A hell of a lot more than the guardian has done, by the by, even though the LAW requires that he provide rehabilitation and restoration to capacity. This is the only thing the Schindlers could possibly do to try to help their daughter since they have been denied permission to intervene in any way. If that were my kid, you best believe I'd do anything I possibly could. So would you, mate.

They introduced a videotape supposedly showing her somewhat visually tracking a balloon for about 30 seconds, but then, when the entire tape was shown, it showed her have no contact with anything for the entire 45 minutes of the tape, except the 30 seconds.

A flat-out lie and you know it. I've seen the tapes in their entirety. Have you? No?

Sorry, the results speak for themselves. I do not demean the desire of these people to help Terri, but when public support was at 77% when this matter began and is now at 28%, someone is doing something very foolish.

Maybe because unscrupulous 'journalists' have turned this whole thing into a political nut when it never was. Since people are basically sheep, they ate that up with a side salad. None of it is true and you know it as well as I.

For some "supporters" this has been all about face time on TV, not Terri's survival.

BS. This has been about getting the story into the minds and hearts of as many people as humanly possible. Because the press and media have consistently leaned on Schiavo's side of the story, this was an important factor. The result was a groundswell from the grassroots that has been both impressive and instrumental in sparing this young woman's life.

Please do not get me wrong, I am on Terri's side completely.

Oh, and doesn't it show? I think you're the one looking for 15 minutes. Shame on you.

It's just that as a lawyer and former network news reporter, I have seen the vast foolishness perpetrated in this case. .... and yes I have volunteered to help. On three separate occasions, "someone" from the team was going to call me back in 30 minutes. Callbacks? Zero.

You've been contacted. If it didn't work out in the fashion that you had wished it to, you're not in the right to criticize. The people you've spoken to are VOLUNTEERS. They have no power or authority to make decisions for a family or that family's legal team. That's reality.

Unfortunately, the actions of some of them have had the exact opposite effect of that which was desired.

If you mean the bickering, slandering and divisiveness of a few... I couldn't agree more. If you mean that they've not succeeded in getting the grassroots to their feet, nothing could be further from the truth.

If one disagrees with that statement, then ask yourself, why are we still losing. The answer isn't bad judges or anything like that. Losers say that in every case.

You already answered this in your opening remarks. The husband has more rights in the eyes of the law. Tell me, do you think judge Greer has acted appropriately to law in not removing a neglectful guardian who has not complied with Florida guardianship laws?

The answer is; something different must be done, and until it is, Terri will continue to slip away from us, physically and legally.

That's the difference between you and I, mate. I'm keeping on until someone tells me different. I'm not going to close my eyes and let a murder go down in my neighborhood. If it does or doesn't, I'm not going to sit still and watch more laws open the doors for abuses and murder. I intend to do something - anything I can - to see that this never goes down again. What are you going to do? Knock people on a message board or get off your arse and let your representatives know you want a change?


558 posted on 02/07/2005 6:47:26 AM PST by phenn (http://www.terrisfight.org)
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To: MindBender26
You spoke to the Foundation, mindbender26. I want to clarify that for this thread. Don't come along and try to say that you were ignored. You were not.

Further, your opinion that the goal of Terri's supporters is face time on tv, that is simply not true. Only the parents and siblings are on any national broadcasts and only a handful of supporters appear on radio.

Even your statistical analysis that support for Terri has gone downhill is inaccurate.

If you want to help the Schindlers, please do so but they are contacted by hundreds of people through: fight4terri@aol.com and The Gibbs Law Firm. They can't give any one person undivided attention because SO MANY ARE COMING FORWARD WITH IDEAS. So many.

568 posted on 02/07/2005 10:11:48 AM PST by floriduh voter (SEE TERRI ALERT & AWARE - VIDEOS AT www.terrisfight.org)
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