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THE MURDER CITY (Compare Glasgow's murder rate to American cities.)
Daily Record (UK) ^ | Nov 27, 2003 | John Mceachran

Posted on 01/28/2005 10:53:52 PM PST by Dan from Michigan


Glasgow is the western European killing capital

By John Mceachran

GLASGOW was yesterday branded the murder capital of western Europe by shock new figures. The horror statistic was revealed alongside damning evidence that the number of illegal killings murders and culpable homicides in Scotland has soared while the conviction rate has plummeted.

A report from the Scottish Executive confirmed thatthe number of people dying in violent incidents had rocketed to its highest level since 1995.

Most deadly attacks were fuelled by booze or drugs and stabbings were the main cause of fatal injuries.

There were 125 incidents which resulted in killings in 2002 40 of them in Glasgow alone and 127 people died as a result.

The majority of victims were stabbed to death by friends or relatives who were in a drunken rage.

The statistics showed that 186 people were arrested for the 127 killings. Nine out of 10 werecaughtwithinamonth of the incident.

But convictions occurred in only 71 of the 125 homicide cases, compared to 75 convictions in 113 cases the previous year.

Eight of the killers in 2002 were under 16 and 46 were aged 16 to 20.

According to the report, the typical murderer was male, aged 16 to 29, lived in Glasgow, knew the victim and stabbed them to deathwith a knife during a drunken weekend row.

Yesterday, Justice Minister Cathy Jamieson vowed to crack down on the killer culture which has blighted so many lives.

She said: ''This kind of behaviour and its shocking consequences can no longer be tolerated in a modern Scotland.

''Too many of these cases result when either the accused or the victim is drunk. Most occur at the weekend and involve young men.''

The figures for 2002 showed Glasgow had a homicide rate of 58.7 people per million of population more than twice the level of the other Scottish cities.

Aberdeen was the second most dangerous city, with an average of 21.9 killings per million while Dundee had 15.9 victims and Edinburgh was safest with just 15.6 fatalities.

Glasgow had the highest rate of any city in western Europe, including Belfast, Madrid, Paris, London, Amsterdam and Dublin.

Only the Baltic states' cities had a higher rate, along with American crime centres such as New Yorkand Washington and the lawless Russian capital, Moscow.

Jamieson added: ''I believe reforms to drinking laws now being considered will reduce this potentially fatal connection between over-indulging in alcohol and violent crime.

''On knife crime, we are committed to reviewing the law and enforcement of such crimes. We have alreadystarted work towards that end.''

Willie Rae, chiefconstable of Strathclyde, where nearly two thirds of the killings 81 out of 127 took place, refused to comment.

But Superintendent Mike Dean described the success of Operation Magnet, which seized more than 200 knives in a six-week crackdown centred on Govan, Glasgow.

He said: ''We took in 40 lock knives, 13 steak knives and 25 kitchen knives.

''Operation Magnet has been extremelysuccessful in tackling the carrying of offensive weapons.''

And he added: ''We havealso launched a new initiative which aims to target particular hot-spots.

''At the weekend, nine weapons, including three machetes and an axe, were taken off the streets.''

SNP leader John Swinney MSP said: ''These figures are horrifying.

''Not only are more homicides being committed, but the conviction rate has fallen by almost 15 per cent.

''Scotland as a whole has one of the highest homicide rates in the EU.

''And Glasgow's figure is double that of London and higher even than Belfast. ''Knife deaths alone have almost doubled since 1997.

''These figures leave Jack McConnell without an alibi for Labour's record of abject failure.

''His Executive loves to talk tough on crime, but the reality is they are convicted by their own statistics.''

And Scots Tory justice spokeswoman Annabel Goldie said: ''Unless we adoptazerotolerance stance, Scotland will continue on its depressing descent into more violence, more crime and more human misery.

''This country must be made a safer place to live.''

TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: bang; banglist; glasgow; knife; scotland
127 murders - population around 577,869
The Glasgow Murder rate is only slightly lower than Flint which has a population of 124,943 and had 28 murders. Flint and Saginaw usually battle for 2nd place in the state behind Detroit.

Comparison to other American Cities and areas.
Michigan:(Source Michigan state Police)
Detroit - 366 murders(2003), 925,000 people
Grand Rapids (2nd largest city) - 11 murders(2003), 197,800 people.
Saginaw - 16 murders(2003), 61,799 people (2nd in state and higher than Glasgow and Flint)
Southfield(Majority black) - 2 murders, 78,000 people

Other Cities (FBI report, includes non-negligent homicide as well - 2003)
Tuscon AZ - 47 murders, 514,618 people
Denver CO - 63 murders, 565,909 people
Washington DC - 248 murders, 563,384 (Total gun ban)
Jacksonville FL - 92 murders, 776,417 people
Indianapolis - 107 murders, 800167 people
Baltimore MD - 270 murders, 644544 people
Charlotte NC - 66 murders, 668003 people
Columbus OH - 109 murders, 726151 people
Oklahoma City - 49 murders, 521,681 people
Portland OR - 27 murders, 545271 people
Memphis TN - 126 murders, 653,858 people
Nashville TN - 74 murders, 554,888 people
Austin TX - 27 murders, 682,319 people
El Paso TX - 21 murders, 586,392 people
Fort Worth TX - 57 murders, 576339 people
San Antonio TX - 85 murders, 1,212,789
Seattle WA - 34 murders, 576,296
Milwaukee WI - 109 murders, 594,269
There are others with both higher (Philly) and lower rates(San Jose). I mostly stuck with those cities about the same size as Glasgow.

And my "gun infested" (6000+ NRA members) Livingston County - 0 murders(2004), 178,000 people

It's not the guns. It's the people. Else Washington DC wouldn't be worse than Detroit, and Glasgow wouldn't be five times higher than El Paso TX which is about the same size.

Now that's not to say that we don't have our own problems here. Detroit, Baltimore and DC for example all have higher rates. There are several factors in each area.

1 posted on 01/28/2005 10:53:53 PM PST by Dan from Michigan
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To: Dan from Michigan

"70,000,000 gun owners in America behaved peacefully today..." -- relayed by Shonda Ponder

-- found at (quotes on gun rights)

2 posted on 01/28/2005 10:58:45 PM PST by FreeKeys ("You have to ask yourself, 'Who owns me? Do I own myself or am I just govt property?'"- Neal Boortz)
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To: Dan from Michigan

Wow. Good info Dan. Bumped and Bookmarked.

3 posted on 01/28/2005 11:04:52 PM PST by Dead Corpse (Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.)
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To: FreeKeys

Glasgow isn't exactly a town that you'd want to spend a night in. It reminded me of driving through Detroit. Another town...which some folks may not figure in the same crowd is Limerick, Ireland. Once you arrive at Shannon Airport...which is one of the best and cheapest in the your car and drive for at least an hour away from Limerick...its simply not safe after dark in the midst of town. Highest number of knifings per year of any major European city. I ended up staying in a hotel on the outskirts of Limerick...and you could tell they had extra security built into the lobby and the entry way. Europe may advertise itself as extremely safe...but there are still places that you'd best stay away from.

4 posted on 01/28/2005 11:08:37 PM PST by pepsionice
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To: Dan from Michigan

How many butter knives did they conficate?

How about ice picks?

5 posted on 01/28/2005 11:11:49 PM PST by Lorianne
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To: pepsionice

They call Moscow "lawless" in this article, but I've been there in june and felt completely safe. Most of the murders there are over business deals/mafia related, I beleive, not just some random street crime. The city is beautiful.

6 posted on 01/28/2005 11:13:42 PM PST by BrooklynGOP (
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To: Dan from Michigan
''Too many of these cases result when either the accused or the victim is drunk. Most occur at the weekend and involve young men.'

Hmmm. How about banning weekends?

7 posted on 01/28/2005 11:15:03 PM PST by Lorianne
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To: Dan from Michigan

You have to distinguish between murders and homicides. Murder means the intentional taking of a life. Homicide includes justifiable (self-defense), manslaughter, negligent manslaughter as well as intentional murder and a few other meaningless categories.

8 posted on 01/28/2005 11:21:00 PM PST by appeal2
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To: BrooklynGOP
They call Moscow "lawless" in this article, but I've been there in june and felt completely safe. Most of the murders there are over business deals/mafia related,

My wife (Russian) remarked that the crime in Russian tends to stay aimed at Russians. Tourists are pretty safe except for certain areas around town where you will get robbed for being a rich american.

Never noticed myself as I just dressed down and everyone over there said I looked like a russian criminal ;)

9 posted on 01/29/2005 12:16:02 AM PST by Centurion2000 (Nations do not survive by setting examples for others. Nations survive by making examples of others)
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To: Dan from Michigan

This is sad as I order my Cambridge KJV Bibles from there.

10 posted on 01/29/2005 5:22:04 AM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar (When someone burns a cross on your lawn, the best firehose is an AK-47.)
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To: pepsionice; cardinal4

We had a family wedding in Co. Limerick in 2002. I was the designated driver in a rented van in which we crammed nine people/two weeks' worth of luggage. First stop was a multi-story car-park in downtown Limerick. All of us were pretty nervous. And speaking as a native born Detroiter, I didn't think Limerick was all THAT bad.

11 posted on 01/29/2005 6:02:34 AM PST by Ax (I learned all I needed to know about Islam during my two years in Saudi Arabia.)
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To: BrooklynGOP
They call Moscow "lawless" in this article, but I've been there in june and felt completely safe.

They also call New York a "crime center" which it simply is not these days. It was at one time but it isn't any more.

12 posted on 01/29/2005 6:32:29 AM PST by saquin
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To: Dan from Michigan

My guess is these murders are done by Scots on Scots, not by any kind of immigrants. Which is how London-metro is.

13 posted on 01/29/2005 6:49:03 AM PST by dennisw (Pryce-Jones: Arab culture is steeped in conspiracy theories, half truths, and nursery rhyme politics)
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To: Dan from Michigan
If is seems rather queer to speak about confiscating knives as a suggestion that the police are doing something.

Confiscated a couple hundred knives? I probably have that many. How would these dreamers prevent access to a knife? Close down the restaurants? The prisons can't keep knives (shanks) from prisoners who have 24 hour surveillance and random searches. Who are they kidding?
14 posted on 01/29/2005 9:42:42 AM PST by School of Rational Thought (Republican - The thinking people's party)
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To: Centurion2000

Well, crime there is mostly mafia related.. So, unless you own a business there, you are pretty safe.

15 posted on 01/29/2005 11:52:54 AM PST by BrooklynGOP (
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To: Dan from Michigan

Dan, are the Michigan state Police statistics and the 2003 FBI homicide data report on the web? If so, please could you post links to them, because I wish to pass these stats onto some British liberals who will not believe that the murder rate in Glasgow (where they are trying to ban the sale of sporting and combat knives), is over 5 times higher than the murder rate in Austin, Texas (where there is CCW) - unless I cite official reports. Thanks for your help.

16 posted on 01/30/2005 12:32:56 PM PST by David Hunter
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To: David Hunter
Both are on the web, and in PDF format.

The FBI one is - It starts on page 123 and has most cities with 10,000 or more people. I tried using cities about the size of Glasgow for most of my examples.

You also may want to tell the liberals that NYC, Chicago, and Washington DC all have handgun bans as well. DC is the nations murder capitol almost every year.

States have varying laws on guns. Massachusetts, Illinois, Maryland, and California are strict. Michigan is in the middle. Texas, the Dakotas, Alaska, Vermont, New Hampshire and Kentucky are very lenient. The Michigan state Police one is

The FBI one has almost all US cities.

17 posted on 01/30/2005 12:58:13 PM PST by Dan from Michigan ("Check up, fatboy!" - Scott Skiles)
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To: Dan from Michigan

Sorry you had to use misleading info to bolster your case Dan. Even quoting your own source there were 40 murders in Glasgow. The 127 you quote was for the whole of Scotland. Do the math Dan. Changes your comparison figures somewhat.

18 posted on 05/12/2007 6:05:47 AM PDT by wellididntknowthat
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Comment #19 Removed by Moderator

To: tstruss912

Wasn’t my math and watch your tongue...

20 posted on 08/04/2010 8:41:36 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (III, Alarm and Muster)
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