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To: Alamo-Girl
Okay, I misunderstood your post. I assumed you were prepared to put forth an argument as to how atheism is religion. Instead, it appears to me, you offer a challenge for someone to disprove the foundations upon which you base your religious convictions.

That being said, I will return to your nine points, because I do not have time to examine them in depth now, but I certainly think it is possible to say "That's just the way it is" or "we don't really know" and not pass into the realm of religion (unless your definition of religion is so broad as to, by definition, include atheism. In such a case all you are doing is proving what you set out to define, by referencing your definition.)

In other words, it appears to me that you work from the assumption that absent disproof of these points, no non-religious belief system can exist. You have thus put the rabbit in the hat, by making the default value "religion." In doing so, you make non-religious uncertainty, insufficient data, or even an arbitrary natural state to be evidence of religion or religious belief.

I would first state that I think your main thesis is flawed, because one need not be strictly rational to be an atheist. Thus, requiring "a scientific or mathematically plausible explanation" conflates the two.

Yours is an interesting post, and I will return to it when I have time.

1,722 posted on 02/04/2005 8:07:04 AM PST by WildHorseCrash
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To: WildHorseCrash
Thank you so much for your reply! I look forward to your further replies!!!

Indeed, the question of "what is a 'religion'?" is pivotal to my challenges. That is why I included the link, to explain why atheism is considered a religion, especially wrt politics and 1st amendment rights.

If a person is atheist or even simply agnostic without considering and/or answering any of the challenges, that is fine. But such a reaction is a belief and thus "materialism" and in particular "scientific materialism" from such a one is on par with similarly biased theological arguments about origins and life. IOW, in that case the notion that a person is atheist by reason cannot apply - scientific objectivity is out the window.

Also, "doubt" does not equal atheism. Doubting Thomas was an Apostle, too.

1,728 posted on 02/04/2005 8:25:12 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: WildHorseCrash
Some simple questions.
  1. Which is more likely to have caused us to be here now as we observe ourselves and the universe around us? (A) G-d (B) God-free Random Processes (C) Don't know (D) Can't be determined.

  2. Which is more likely to have caused us to be here now as we observe ourselves and the universe around us? (A) Creation by G-d in Six Days (B) Initial Creation of some archtypes (such as space-time, physics, etc and the ideations of plant, planet, star, sun, insect, animal and man) and constant tuning by G-d thereafter (C) A God-free universe and physics just popped up last nano-second in this condition (D) God-free evolution from some very primitive initial condition

1,729 posted on 02/04/2005 8:28:05 AM PST by bvw
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