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Burning swastika in Jewish cemetery (Swedish Auschwitz Remembrance Cermony)
AFP ^ | January 29, 2005 | From correspondents in Stockholm

Posted on 01/28/2005 9:35:32 AM PST by Eurotwit

A BURNING swastika was found on a grave in a Jewish cemetery in southern Sweden just hours after world leaders commemorated the 60th anniversary of the liberation of the Nazi death camp at Auschwitz.

Police said the burning symbol of the Third Reich was discovered at a cemetery in Norrkoeping. "Someone gathered candles from the graves and shaped them like a swastika and lit the candles," said local duty officer Paer Aake Olsson.

"This is agitation against a religious group and is a crime ... We have gathered shoe prints from the area and have taken pictures of the grave, so we have the clues we need."


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: sweden
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To: TheOtherOne

I think he's only serious in wanting to pick a fight.


41 posted on 01/28/2005 12:08:52 PM PST by Frank_Discussion (May the wings of Liberty never lose a feather!)
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To: PeterFinn
So, as I was saying, not every use of the symbol is Nazi.

Nor is every use innocent. Odd that you would chose to defend a burning symbol in a Jewish Cemetary to make your point. I think you like the idea of a burning swastika in a jewish cemetary, and like defending it too.

42 posted on 01/28/2005 12:11:47 PM PST by TheOtherOne
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To: TheOtherOne

I think you are right--he doesn't respond to reason, and keeps repeating the same bs. Trolling for a fight. Who needs it? I'm off to another thread, care to join me?


43 posted on 01/28/2005 12:20:22 PM PST by ariamne (reformed liberal-Shieldmaiden of the Infidel)
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Comment #44 Removed by Moderator

To: PeterFinn
"I'm just saying that not all use of a swastika means the person using it is a Nazi." BS, that's just another straw argument ,used by neo-nazis.
45 posted on 01/28/2005 12:36:39 PM PST by Marguerite
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To: Marguerite; AppyPappy; PeterFinn
"I'm just saying that not all use of a swastika means the person using it is a Nazi."

BS, that's just another straw argument ,used by neo-nazis.

Strawmen like that are necessary to justify the accusation of whining Jews.

"Someone gathered candles from the graves and shaped them like a swastika and lit the candles," said local duty officer Paer Aake Olsson.

Someone took candles off the graves, and arranged a swastika on a Jewish grave out of respect. On the anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz. I believe that. And the Kluckers are just putting up Christmas decorations.


46 posted on 01/28/2005 12:52:45 PM PST by SJackson ( Bush is as free as a bird, He is only accountable to history and God, Ra'anan Gissin)
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To: AppyPappy

I give you a link to a respected, legitimate source to substantiate my point and you call it BS.

I guess we're done here.


47 posted on 01/28/2005 12:53:21 PM PST by PeterFinn (Why is it that people who know the least know it the loudest?)
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To: PeterFinn

Lord I hope so.


48 posted on 01/28/2005 12:54:03 PM PST by AppyPappy (If You're Not A Part Of The Solution, There's Good Money To Be Made In Prolonging The Problem.)
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To: AppyPappy

Haahahah... He's going to take his ball and go away now...


49 posted on 01/28/2005 1:12:01 PM PST by Frank_Discussion (May the wings of Liberty never lose a feather!)
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To: SJackson; Marguerite; AppyPappy

As I have clearly said: if this was a swastika of burning gasoline poured on the grass I would not be saying that it might not be a hate crime. If this were in France or Belgium I wouldn't say this. But it is in Sweden where the swastika has historically been a good symbol dating back millenia before the advent of Hitler and his evil henchmen. I've also pointed out that the synagogue Beith Tefila in Gothenburg has swastikas on the front door as an example of such.

Since, as is your collective point of view, that any use of a swastika is a hate crime should the Jewish synagogue be destroyed and its members arrested for daring to defy your misconceptions?

Why not go to India and destroy every temple with a swastika on it? There's lots of them, by the way. Or go destroy the Laguna Bridge on the Hopi Nation. Why not destroy the Amiens Cathedral? Howzabout we burn some Buddhist Temples for having "NAZI!!!" symbols on them?

Why don't we just round up all of these people who are so offending you with their refusal to surrender their cultural icons to your hatred? Why don't we round them up, put them in camps, and gas them if they won't give up their non-Nazi swastikas?

You people are just as bad as the Nazis. You hate without even knowing what it is you hate. You don't even bother to look at the links I've posted that would show you that certain Scandinavians still consider the swastika as their own symbol and not a Nazi symbol.

Why not let us turn this around?

You put up a picture of the KKK appropriating a cross to burn as a symbol of hate. By your logic then, isn't ANY cross a symbol of hatred? Shouldn't we tear down each and every cross because of what that symbol meant to people oppressed, terrorized, and murdered by the people who used that symbol? C'mon, this is YOUR argument here.

So why is it that we can accept the cross as a symbol apart from the KKK who carry it as a symbol of hate to this very day - yet the swastika that was carried for a much shorter period as a symbol of hate *must* receive no tolerance? Why is it you cannot accept that there are people who don't care a whit about Naziism who use swastikas?

Aren't crosses an intolerable symbol of hatred? This is your logic, after all.

And don't give me some intellectually dishonest explanation that "it's different". It is not. A hate group appropriates a symbol and now it is lost forever to any other group?

Please.

Are you going to stop your children from enjoying rainbows because the homosexuals have appropriated the rainbow as a symbol of homosexuality?

Will mathematicians have to stop using the "=" sign because another queer group appropriated that?

Heck, a white power group called 'National Alliance' has used the Star of David in some of their sickening drivel. Should the Star of David be forever banned being as it has been 'tainted' by a hate group?

Of course not.

And there's no reason why people who have nothing to do with Nazis, the Klan, or any other offensive hate group should have to lose *anything* because of the actions of a bunch of despicable criminals.

Think about this: because of the Nazis you would hurt Native Americans, Hindus, Arabs, Africans, rural Europeans, Pacific Islanders, & etc.

Which is utter nonsense.

Which brings me full-circle back to my point that it is a fact (which I've substantiated) that some people in Sweden do not consider the swastika a bad thing.

If they did this out of ignorance (but meaning well) then they sure as heck need an education that while they have no issue with the swastika that Jewish people do.

If it proves out to be an act of hatred then I'm all for horsewhipping the clods who did it.


50 posted on 01/28/2005 2:34:56 PM PST by PeterFinn (Why is it that people who know the least know it the loudest?)
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To: PeterFinn
The Nazis also used numbers

Their swastika was their flag. That they intentionally borrowed the trappings of ancient Rome, as well, and what they otherwise imagined were 'Aryan' symbol, is beside the point, in this case. Yes, the swastika, and those new replacements for it, should clearly be banned. I don't say they should be removed from museums, and studies of the era. I don't say photos should be removed from books reporting on the period. I don't say the films should be destroyed. I'm saying present public display of such hideous notions as represented by that flag should simply not be allowed. So the flag as the physical representation, itself, should not be allowed. If you'll recall, we beat the Nazis. Those of them who faded into the crowd and continued to promote their sect need to come to terms with that. They lost, in the bloodiest war in all of human history, much of it the blood of innocents cruelly executed by those who flew that flag.

51 posted on 01/28/2005 9:54:42 PM PST by sevry
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To: PeterFinn
What are you on?
Frankly, your comment about Jews needing to get over victimhood, says quite a bit about you.

Everyone in Sweden who opened a paper in the last week, would know what a Sawastika was used for by the Nazis.
The Vandals BROKE into a cemetary, desecrated commemoration candles, and put them into a symbol used by the Nazis. This was either the act of a complete RETARD, SPACE ALIENS, or Neo-Nazis.

Do you think that we are stupid?

52 posted on 01/28/2005 11:49:40 PM PST by rmlew (Copperheads and Peaceniks beware! Sedition is a crime.)
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To: LauraleeBraswell
While Henry Ford did not go around killing Jews, he was a renowned (recognized) anti-semite..

Seriously..

Depending on what sort of comparison your history professor made, he may have been accurate in his depiction..

53 posted on 01/29/2005 1:09:33 AM PST by Drammach (Freedom; not just a job, it's an adventure..)
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To: Drammach
I know that Henry Ford was an anti-Semite, but to compare him to STALIN. That is ridiculous.

The comparison was that Stalin wasn't so bad.

That- and he also made another comparison


"Have sex and lie about it, you get impeached
Go to war under illegal conditions, you get reelected"
54 posted on 01/29/2005 5:43:38 AM PST by LauraleeBraswell ( I'm voting Newt Gingrich in 08 ! ! !)
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To: PeterFinn
Listen sir, even considering every odd chance, complete and absolute ignorance and not paying attention to the memorial that just happened a few hours ago (Didn't they watch it? What were celebrating, then, with the candles), "rural people" entering a cementery of a different culture, a culture it doesn't (or claims do not) understand, and performs any kind of intentional and clear modification, even if only visual and temporary, is already out of order and guilty of a grave offence. A cementery is not a place where you can go and move candles around, period.

The "ignorance" defense is weak too. That the performers didn't know exactly what a svastika on a jewish cementery means is, at best, hard to believe. Context.

And thanks for hijacking the thread. Back to topic, I'll say cheers for the Sweden police and I hope the investigation is not just for show.

55 posted on 01/29/2005 6:28:21 AM PST by Codename - Ron Benjamin ("Forbidden fruit? We have forbidden fruit? Hey Eve... we have forbidden fruit!!!!!")
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To: PeterFinn
Hey buddy, I have read your posts, and don't really think you are trying to start a flame war, but actually are thinking that Swedish people might be some sort of rural/pagan throwbacks that still use these ancient symbols such as the swastika.

I just came back from living four years in Sweden, and I must tell you; whomever put these candles there MOST DEFINITELY meant then as a racist statement. No Swedes I knew understood the swastika as an ancient symbol of auspiscion, and if they did, they would never have used it, the same as you and I wouldn't.

In Europe (though you might know this) people light very large candles in glass at graves on holidays (November 1 being the most popular, but including all religious holidays as well). You may have seen something like them in the Hispanic aisle of the grocery store (though the Euro ones don't have any pictures on them). For someone to have gone to the trouble of collecting them from other graves (which is rude enough as it is--considering they STOLE them from other graves) to make a "peace-symbol" from the pre-modern Sanskrit tradition, or some other BS, the day of the European commemoration of the 60th anniversary of Auschwitz, is beyond the realm of possibility. Truly. Truly. Truly.

In many circumstances, I might back you up, but not this one.

If someone put this there, it is because the major portion of Swedes are pro-Palestinian, and not because they are hearkening back to their pre-medieval roots, the same as you probably would not be thinking of a swastika in the agrarian, pro-happiness sort of way.

Please, move on to another argument, because this was definitely done by one of the 12% of the Swedish population that is a Muslim (or Muslim sympathizing) population.
56 posted on 01/29/2005 5:15:20 PM PST by Rutabega (European 'intellectualism' has NOTHING on America's kick-a$$ism!)
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To: LauraleeBraswell
Sex, war, re-election.. LOL ! ( obviously a clintonite..)
Yeah, while both were anti-semitic, ( partly due to the environment they were raised in ) ...

Stalin killed something like 12 million people..
Ford made millions of cars...

That is a distinct difference..

57 posted on 01/30/2005 4:31:05 AM PST by Drammach (Freedom; not just a job, it's an adventure..)
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To: rmlew

"Frankly, your comment about Jews needing to get over victimhood, says quite a bit about you."

Really? I ask: since Israel's inception in the face of tremendous hostility, have they ever lost an armed conflict? Never. Israel and her Jewish people have much, mcuh, more to proud of in their accomplishments since WW2 and they NEED to get over the victimhood since they are NOT victims anymore.

Israel's psychology of victimhood is arguably causing it to lose the peace to the Muslims who will stop at nothing to destroy Israel.

Israel & the Jews need to cut this crap out with identifying with the Holocaust and say "Never again!" by standing up with pride and beating the crap out of anyone who threatens them.

I look at Israel and the Jews the same way I look at the GOP and conservatives in America: they don't know how to act when they win.


58 posted on 01/31/2005 8:05:43 AM PST by PeterFinn (Why is it that people who know the least know it the loudest?)
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To: sevry

"Yes, the swastika, and those new replacements for it, should clearly be banned."

Why should Hindus and other people who use this symbol have to lose it because of the Nazis? Should the cross be banned because of the Ku Klux Klan?

I work in a work place where Hindus from India often have swastika art in their cubicles. For that matter, the girl who gave me my coffee at the office cafe this morning, her name is 'Swastika'. We get the periodic complaints from folks here that Hindus should be more sensitive and stop using this symbol. And why? Hinduism has been around for 6,000 years and Naziism was around for 35. Hindus had nothing to do with the Holocaust and should not suffer the loss of a sacred symbol due to its misuse by the Nazis.

I can ping some Hindu folks to weigh in on this if you'd like.


59 posted on 01/31/2005 9:15:10 AM PST by PeterFinn (Why is it that people who know the least know it the loudest?)
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To: PeterFinn
Naziism was around for 35.

Theosophists also employ the swastika, and are allowed to hang images of it in their cubicles. I've seen it. The Nazi flag is different, and easily recognizable. I'm surprized you don't recognize that fact.

60 posted on 01/31/2005 9:25:05 AM PST by sevry
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