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Suspect named in slaying Police believe man fled to Mexico
Chicago Tribune ^ | January 28, 2005 | David Heinzmann and Jamie Francisco

Posted on 01/28/2005 9:08:26 AM PST by ConservativeStatement

Chicago police are trying to locate a man in Mexico they believe killed 21-year-old Melissa Dorner, a North Side restaurant hostess who lived in the building where he had been staying.

An arrest warrant has been issued for Roberto Ramirez, 24, whom detectives identified as a suspect after his roommates said he was bloodied and scratched and had told them he had done something "bad" before disappearing Sunday.

(Excerpt) Read more at chicagotribune.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; News/Current Events; US: Illinois
KEYWORDS: aliens; chicago; crime; immigrantlist; mexico; murder
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To: MassRepublicanFlyersFan

This is not new or different:

"On June 17, 2003, the Board approved a reward offer of $10,000 for information leading to the arrest and conviction of Armando Garcia, aka Daniel Garcia and "Chato," for the death of Los Angeles County Sheriff's Deputy David March. The reward offered will expire on November 18, 2004."

All U.S Law Enforcement knows what Garcia's address is in Mexico. Mexico will NOT extradite them because they might get the Death Penalty.

95 PER CENT of Los Angeles County Homocide Warrants are for ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS


21 posted on 01/28/2005 11:39:58 AM PST by Ramonan (Honor does not go out of style.)
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To: Ramonan; All

Mexico has probably made Garcia head of border security by now!

A little background on "poor" Mexico.


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0412/16/ldt.01.html

Aired 12/16/04 On CNN

DOBBS: Tonight, an estimated 15 million illegal aliens live in this country (20 million according to Bear Stearns report later that month), at least half of them from Mexico. Many are here because they chose to flee crushing poverty in Mexico.

But, in point of fact, Mexico is one of the richest countries in Latin America, amongst -- the millionaires, billionaires and its wealth concentrated in the hands of very few.


CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They sneak across the border seeking jobs they can't find in Mexico. The question isn't why they come, it's why can't Mexico's economy support its own people.

Nearly half of Mexico's population lives in poverty. Ten percent are indigent, existing on a dollar a day. Yet the nation has vast wealth. Mexico has more "Forbes" billionaires, 11, than all but eight other nations. It has more billionaires than Saudi Arabia, Switzerland or Taiwan. It also has more than 85,000 millionaires.

GEORGE W. GRAYSON, COLLEGE OF WILLIAM & MARY: There is a small economic elite who live like maharajas, and there's a political elite that protects them. Our border provides an escape valve which really lets the Mexican political and economic elite off the hook in terms of providing opportunities for their own people.

WIAN (on camera): About 10 percent of Mexico's 105 million people live here in the United States. They're called national heroes by President Vicente Fox because this year they'll send home about $16 billion, more than any Mexican industry except oil.

Mexico's outdated tax system is plagued by widespread tax evasion. It collects taxes at less than half the rate of the United States. As a result, Mexico's public-school and health-care systems suffer.

WIAN: Meanwhile, the gap between rich and poor is growing. So Mexico continues to export one of its most valuable assets, people.


22 posted on 01/28/2005 11:56:35 AM PST by JustAnotherSavage ("We are all sinners. But jerks revel in their sins." PJ O'Rourke)
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To: JustAnotherSavage

Yes. And here is partly why....


Illegal Alien Immigration Bonanza: Special Order 40
Commentary by Frosty Wooldridge
September 3, 2004

Illegal alien criminals fill a whopping 29 percent of America’s state and federal prisons. Still, many more are violent criminals running around in the general population. However, in dozens of cities where aliens commit violent crimes, police cannot use the most obvious method for apprehending them—their illegal immigration status.



Why? The answer: SPECIAL ORDER 40.



In Los Angeles, the 20,000 member “18th Street Gang,” comprised of 60 percent illegal aliens, runs a crime network second to none in America. According to Heather MacDonald’s investigative report, “The Illegal Alien Crime Wave,” criminals run free because governors, mayors and city councils across America adopted “Special Order 40.” Because of it, MacDonald said, “The bloody 18th Street Gang collaborates with the Mexican Mafia, the dominant force in California prisons, on drug-distribution schemes, extortion, drive-by assassinations and commits an assault or robbery every day in Los Angeles Country.”



With this sanctuary policy in place in Boulder, Colorado, eight illegal aliens were free to work, live and gang rape eight women in that city in 2003. Only one was caught while seven fled back to Mexico. Another woman jogger was raped and killed by four illegal aliens in New York City last summer. The violence to Americans grows in city after city.



What is Special Order 40? Daryl Gates, LA police chief in 1979, bowing to illegal alien immigrant advocates’ growing power, introduced the order. Much like Lord Chamberlain’s bowing to Hitler to preserve the peace for a ‘moment’ in history, the order prohibited officers from "…initiating police action where the objective is to discover the alien status of the person.”



As illegal alien migration grew, so did its powerful advocates. The order was adopted by cities across America. Today, illegal alien criminals are free to move about the country in San Francisco, Chicago, Atlanta, New York, Denver, Phoenix, Miami, Detroit, Houston, Dallas and most other cities across the United States.



Even if caught for a violation, one that could deport them before they commit a greater felony, they cannot be detained for immigration violations. Even though it is a federal offense!



Such is one of the reasons for 9/11. Illegal immigration had gotten SO far out of hand and unenforced, terrorists assumed they could succeed. How? Former New York Mayor Rudolph Giuliani sued all the way to the Supreme Court to defend the city’s sanctuary policy for illegals. He lost. He claimed that the INS ‘terrorized’ people. “On September 5, 2001, Giuliani hand-picked a charter-revision committee that ruled New York could still require that its employees keep immigration information confidential to preserve trust between ‘immigrants’ (illegal aliens) and government. Six days later, several visa-overstayers who had been stopped and released by police for traffic infractions, participated in the most devastating attack on the city and country in history.” It’s now referred to as 9/11 and is the reason for the war on Afghanistan and Iraq where nearly a thousand U.S. soldiers have died and over 10,000 Iraqi civilians. Ironically, Giuliani became Time’s ‘Man of the Year’ for his perceived heroics but nothing was mentioned about his aiding 9/11 with his illegal alien advocacy.



Fresh on Giuliani’s tails, Mayor Bloomberg stands front and center for New York continuing as a haven for illegal aliens. In Maine, Governor Baldacci, in March of 2004, made his state the first illegal alien sanctuary. As can be imagined, illegal aliens flock to Maine for welfare, free schooling, free lunches, assisted housing, free medical care and jobs. Little wonder Maine’s finances run blood red.



The results of this Special Order 40 grow with startling speed. “In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide, at 1,500, target illegal aliens,” MacDonald said. “Two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants, 17,000, are for illegal aliens.”



MS-13 gangs now operate with impunity in 28 U.S. cities. They distribute drugs to high school and college students as easily as Dairy Queen sells ice cream. One officer said, “If I see a deportee from the Mara Salvatrucha gang crossing the street, I can’t touch him.”



Aiding and abetting this alien crime wave, immigration lawyers, now over 7,000, have won due-process rights for criminal aliens that keep them in the U.S. indefinitely. One probation officer in Brooklyn supervises an illegal Jordanian and Saudi whom, “Look ready to blow up the Statue of Liberty.” The Jordanian had been fencing stolen Social Security and tax refund checks. The Saudi used a fraudulent Social Security number to gain employment. Intelligence reports linked him to terrorism. Again, thanks to Giuliani and Bloomberg, any number of terrorists may use America for their workshop and breeding grounds.



Where does that leave average citizens? For starters, American women are at risk for rape in cities where thousands of illegals reside. You could be killed if you’re in the wrong city at the wrong time. Kids buy drugs at the drop of a hat—addiction follows. You may suffer extortion if you run a small business in one of the 28 cities occupied by MS-13. You could be killed on the highway by illegals driving stolen cars loaded with illegals (Phoenix became the car-jacking capitol of the world with 57,600 stolen vehicles last year). Note they feature 500,000 illegal aliens in that state. The United States moves quietly and horrifically toward the crisis of Third World Momentum.



What does that term mean? It means the corruption, bribing, deceit, concealment and loss of the rule-of-law that strangles most Third World countries is now moving methodically into the United States.



Finally, what it means is that any terrorist can remain in this country as he plans the next 9/11. It means he’s protected and shielded from deportation by a deadly self-inflicted Special Order 40. It means he’s assured of a positive result. It means Tom Ridge may call for a green, yellow, orange, pink or red alert. It means absolutely nothing but a good laugh and a beer to an illegal alien criminal or terrorist. It means our federal, state and local officials aid and abet illegal criminal aliens to remain in our country without concern for abiding by our laws. It means if you’re here illegally, you’re protected legally. What a country!



Frosty Wooldridge is a teacher and author who has bicycled 100,000 miles on six continents to see overpopulation up close and ugly. His explosive book published August 13, 2004: ‘IMMIGRATION’S UNARMED INVASION—DEADLY CONSEQUENCES.’ Copies may be obtained at: 1-888-280-7715 at www.authorhouse.com


23 posted on 01/28/2005 12:01:45 PM PST by Ramonan (Honor does not go out of style.)
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To: Ramonan

I could have sworn I saw that article posted on FR yesterday morning, but couldn't find it last night. Thanks.


24 posted on 01/28/2005 12:04:06 PM PST by JustAnotherSavage ("We are all sinners. But jerks revel in their sins." PJ O'Rourke)
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To: Ramonan
95 PER CENT of Los Angeles County Homocide Warrants are for ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS

Maybe instead of free medical care we should pay them to go to our hospitals, give them all drivers licenses, more food stamps, free interpreters and attorneys, make a few more radio stations Spanish, and maybe they wont kill so much.

What are we all paying now?

50 percent of everything we make? Lets give the government some more, and caugh up another 10 percent of our pay checks.

Lets do it for President Bush.

25 posted on 01/28/2005 12:09:10 PM PST by Joe Hadenuf (No more illegal alien sympathizers from Texas. America has one too many.)
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To: Ramonan
95 PER CENT of Los Angeles County Homocide Warrants are for ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS

I don't believe you. Can you provide proof?

26 posted on 01/28/2005 12:13:01 PM PST by r9etb
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To: Brilliant
However, there was one case where Mexico refused -- at least initially -- to extradite an American citizen (who had an Hispanic name). He was the contract killer of the wife of a Texas millionaire, brutally killed her in front of her four little children. I could be wrong, but it seemed Mexico demanded that he be given a lenient sentence -- that might have been another case.
27 posted on 01/28/2005 12:14:30 PM PST by Dante3
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To: MassRepublicanFlyersFan
During the Scott Peterson's trial, it was brought up that Scott had tried to flee to Mexico. Similar accusations were hurled during the OJ Simpson drama.

Does anyone know if Mexico gives asylum to garden-variety criminals like Scott or OJ? Does anyone know of a US citizen who killed his wife and then found asylum in Mexico for the rest of his life?

28 posted on 01/28/2005 12:23:54 PM PST by george wythe
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To: r9etb

>"I don't believe you. Can you provide proof?"<

Read it...and weep:

http://www.nationalreview.com/dunphy/dunphy200401220906.asp

>"In Los Angeles, 95 percent of the outstanding murder warrants are for illegal aliens, as are perhaps two-thirds of the 17,000 outstanding felony warrants.

Southern California's largest Hispanic street gang, 18th Street, has some 20,000 members, roughly 60 percent of whom are illegal aliens."


29 posted on 01/28/2005 12:38:34 PM PST by FBD ("A nation without borders is not a nation." -- Ronald Reagan)
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To: FBD
>"In Los Angeles, 95 percent of the outstanding murder warrants are for illegal aliens, as are perhaps two-thirds of the 17,000 outstanding felony warrants

Sounds quite alarming. And indeed it was meant to seem alarming.

However, whenever I see "alarming statistics" in an opinion journal of any stripe, I'm automatically skeptical: the author is almost by definition trying to sell us on something.

So I think we need to be specific here, because it's such a sensational claim. What precisely is an "outstanding" warrant, as opposed to any other sort of warrant?

What percentage do outstanding warrants represent as compared to the total number of warrants issued?

In the case of the murder warrants, are we talking about 10 outstanding warrants, or 10,000?

Can you provide data to allow us to decide whether the statistic is alarming or not?

30 posted on 01/28/2005 12:50:06 PM PST by r9etb
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To: r9etb

>"However, whenever I see "alarming statistics" in an opinion journal of any stripe, I'm automatically skeptical: the author is almost by definition trying to sell us on something. ...Can you provide data to allow us to decide whether the statistic is alarming or not?"<


You asked the poster for a link to the 95% stat, and I gave it to you.
Now you question the National Review *source*, who is an officer LAPD officer.
I doubt you even read the article.

The Orange Couty DA has similar info:
http://www.nagia.org/mara_salvatrucha.htm

If you were really intersted in this subject of illegal alien criminals; you would do your own research. But you're obviously not...and I'm not going to waste my time, your mind is already made up to the contrary.

Take care.


31 posted on 01/28/2005 1:06:48 PM PST by FBD ("A nation without borders is not a nation." -- Ronald Reagan)
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To: FBD
You gave me a link to an NR opinion piece (which I expected), and it provides no supporting data to help us decide what the statistic means.

The new link you've provided likewise offers no hard data, and certainly nothing to support your claim about the percentage of outstanding murder warrants.

If you were really intersted in this subject of illegal alien criminals; you would do your own research

No. If you make the claim, the burden of proof is on you. The more amazing the claim, the larger the burden of proof. Do you fully understand the 95% claim, or are you simply taking the NR columnist's word that it's a Bad Thing?

I'm not naive about the number of illegals involved in crimes -- I'm just asking you to back up what you're saying, and you haven't done it yet. I begin to wonder whether you're just passing on numbers you don't understand.

32 posted on 01/28/2005 1:23:31 PM PST by r9etb
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To: JustAnotherSavage

Go here:http://www.bugmenot.com


33 posted on 01/28/2005 5:48:47 PM PST by 4.1O dana super trac pak (Stop the open borders death cult)
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To: skeeter

A couple of days ago some sensitive vain liberal news readers on the local ABC channel happened to mention this, but of course forgot to mention which country he might have run off to. I think a list of murderous absconders needs to be compiled as another sword over the head of OBL traitor types.


34 posted on 01/28/2005 5:51:45 PM PST by junta (If you must hate, hate an ideologue.)
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To: junta
I think a list of murderous absconders needs to be compiled as another sword over the head of OBL traitor types.

A list of Americans killed by illegals, either accidentally or intentionally, would make a powerful argument against the status quo. I wonder if it can be done.

Of course there will be a few who think WHO killed these Americans doesn't matter, but everyone else will get the point.

35 posted on 01/28/2005 6:46:37 PM PST by skeeter (OBL "Americans" won't honor any law that interferes with their pocketbooks)
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To: skeeter; junta; FBD; All

Aired 1/28/05 LOU DOBBS CNN

DOBBS: Later here, Senator Dianne Feinstein will join me. She's proposed new legislation intended to hold the federal government responsible for the immigration crisis in this country -- at least part of it. Senator Feinstein will be our guest.

Some states in this country are allowing illegal aliens now to use a government identification number to obtain driver's licenses, voter identification cards and even home loans. These identification cards were created for use only by the Internal Revenue Service. Now some states are using those cards as a way to grant illegal aliens the benefits of U.S. citizenship.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Here in Milwaukee, Mitchell Bank is one of several Wisconsin banks where illegal aliens can get mortgages.

All it takes is an individual taxpayer identification number, an ITIN, given out by the Internal Revenue Service. That number is meant to collect income taxes from people without Social Security numbers.

But Wisconsin's Housing Authority is going a step further, letting illegal aliens use the number to get a mortgage. They say they're just serving a growing market.

ROMANS: Critics say the program rewards law breakers.

GLENN GROTHMAN, WISCONSIN STATE SENATE: It just makes a mockery of our laws, and it is an insult not only to American citizens, but it's an insult to the employees of our immigration service, and it's an insult to anybody who appears foolishly to try to wait patiently in line to come into this country legally.

ROMANS: The program is recognized by the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago who says most banks understand that illegal aliens are in a "peculiar position." Still, the IRS position is clear. The ITIN is to be used for tax purposes only. The IRS has issued at least seven million ITIN numbers since 1996. It was so nervous about abuse of the numbers, it's warned governors and state motor vehicle departments that ITINs were not designed to serve as personal identification and should not be used for driver's licenses.

Still, across this country, illegal aliens are using these cards, and at least five states are accepting them.

DOBBS: I'm all but speechless. The moronic posturing by people on this immigration crisis is just -- it's stunning. The mentality. I mean, how do you explain people sitting there in the Housing Authority basically postulating as if they were holding forth for a national policy and just ignoring a set of rules and laws and regulations that have been on the books for years.

ROMANS: Well, Lou, the press officer for WHEDA, the Wisconsin Housing Authority, told me he's as illegal as illegal aliens because when he was 7, he stole with his brother a candy bar. He broke a law. He's illegal. That's equivalent to this. He thinks that it's a reality, that there are 10 million illegal aliens in this country. It's a market that needs to be served.

DOBBS: And that's the kind of mentality that we're dealing with. Hard-working people in this country, many of them immigrants -- legal immigrants -- having to deal with this, and a government that is just seeing fit at the state and federal level to ignore the law and the wellbeing of the country.

That brings us to the subject of our poll tonight. The question is: Do you believe state governments should allow illegal aliens to use a government identification number to obtain rights intended for U.S. citizens? Yes or no. Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We wouldn't blame you if you added a few comments in point of fact with that vote.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0501/28/ldt.01.html
Aired 1/28/05
_______
Do you believe state governments should allow illegal aliens to use a federal identification number to obtain rights intended for U.S. citizens?

Yes 7% 320 votes

No 93% 4485 votes

Total: 4805 votes
http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/lou.dobbs.tonight/


36 posted on 01/29/2005 8:57:26 AM PST by JustAnotherSavage ("We are all sinners. But jerks revel in their sins." PJ O'Rourke)
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To: r9etb

>"If you make the claim, the burden of proof is on you."<

I didn't make the "claim". I merely provided you with a link to the story:
National Review Online- a reputable and conservative media outlet puts their reputation on the line by posting that stat.

The poster whom you said "you didn't believe" didn't pull that number out of thin air, which is what your *original* claim basically was.


Furthermore, there is no "burden" or *obligation* for me to further respond to all of your contentious questions. Again, I didn't "make the claim". Understand?


Now, if you feel the *need* to dispute the figure of the "95 percent of the outstanding murder warrants in LA County are for illegal aliens";... knock yourself out FRiend. The facts and figures are readily available to anyone with the capability of using the Google search engine.


I don't come on to this forum to argue with open borders folks like yourself. I've found it's a waste of time.

I doubt you'll take the time to research it, I've seen the M.O. of proponents of illegal aliens before: always demanding sources and links; and when they get them, they dispute them, without EVER providing evidence to the contrary.

Take care.


37 posted on 01/29/2005 2:35:18 PM PST by FBD ("A nation without borders is not a nation." -- Ronald Reagan)
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To: r9etb; Ramonan

A follow up:
your post#26 was to Ramonan, not to me.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1330693/replies?c=26

Where you said:
"I don't believe you. Can you provide proof?"


- Again, I merely gave you a link to the story quoting that stat. I didn't "make the claim."

I believe the journalist who *originaly* made the "claim" was Heather MacDonald.

The Illegal-Alien Crime Wave
Heather MacDonald
http://www.city-journal.org/html/14_1_the_illegal_alien.html




To: Ramonan
95 PER CENT of Los Angeles County Homocide Warrants are for ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS
I don't believe you. Can you provide proof?
26 posted on 01/28/2005 12:13:01 PM PST by r9etb
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38 posted on 01/29/2005 3:08:06 PM PST by FBD ("A nation without borders is not a nation." -- Ronald Reagan)
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To: r9etb; Ramonan

Heather Mac Donald is the person who originally made the claim about the "95% of Los Angeles County Homocide Warrants are for illegal immigrants".

You can view her immpressive resume (and books) HERE:
I think I'll trust her "claim"

http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/mac_donald.htm



"Heather Mac Donald is a John M. Olin fellow at the Manhattan Institute and a contributing editor to City Journal.

Heather’s work at City Journal has canvassed a range of topics including homeland security, immigration, policing and “racial” profiling, homelessness and homeless advocacy, educational policy, the New York courts, and business improvement districts. Heather’s work at City Journal has canvassed a range of topics including policing and “racial” profiling, homelessness and homeless advocacy, educational policy, the New York courts, and business improvement districts. Ms. Mac Donald’s writings have also appeared in The Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, New York Times, The New Republic, Partisan Review, The New Criterion, Public Interest, and Academic Questions. Her book The Burden of Bad Ideas—a collection of essays from the pages of City Journal—details the effects of the sixties’ counterculture’s destructive march through America’s institutions. Her latest book, Are Cops Racist?—another City Journal anthology—investigates the workings of the police, the controversy over so-called racial profiling, and the anti-profiling lobby’s harmful effects on black Americans.

A non-practicing lawyer, Ms. Mac Donald has clerked for the Honorable Stephen Reinhardt, U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, has been an attorney-advisor in the Office of the General Counsel of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, and a volunteer with the National Resource Defense Fund in New York City. She has testified before the Subcommittee on Civil and Constitutional Rights of the Committee of the Judiciary of the U.S. House of Representatives. In 1998, she was appointed to Mayor Rudolph Giuliani’s task force on the City University of New York, thanks in large part to her City Journal essays on education. She is also a frequent guest on Fox News, CNN, and other television and radio programs.

Ms. Mac Donald received her B.A. in English from Yale University, graduating Summa Cum Laude with a Mellon Fellowship to Cambridge University, where she earned her M.A. in English and studied in Italy through a Clare College study grant. Her J.D. is from Stanford University Law School."


39 posted on 01/29/2005 3:25:55 PM PST by FBD ("A nation without borders is not a nation." -- Ronald Reagan)
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To: FBD

"immpressive" ???
ugh. spel chek time...


40 posted on 01/29/2005 3:27:03 PM PST by FBD ("A nation without borders is not a nation." -- Ronald Reagan)
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