Republicans Squaring Off Over Bush Plan on Immigration

NY Times ^ | January 27, 2005 | DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK

[bayourod]

What is the distinction between a legal immigrant, an illegal one, and a guest worker, except their government classification?

If a man is illegal today and becomes legal tomorrow (or vise-a-versa) does he materially change? Does he automatically become a better driver. Does he change religions, eating habits, clothing, music.....?

[Dat Mon]

You ignored the parts of the article dealing with the Chechen terrorists, as reported by Gertz.

Gertz has reliable and highly confidential sources deep within the intelligence services.

If you think that Scott McClellan is going to verify classified data publicly, you are delusional.

If that level of public verification is what constitutes your burden of proof...then there is no point in intelligently discussing this issue further.

Carry on.

[FBD]

I tend to agree, at least about allowing immigrants who are coming from Islamic/terrorist sponsoring states.
They might well be good people, but it's just too risky right now. Folks are forgetting we're at war!

[B4Ranch]

>>Look at the rust belt states where factories sit empty and the population has shrunk.<<

Have you neard about NAFTA yet? That was the result.

[hineybona]

We can get along fine without ANY immigration from the middle East ..Cut it off %100 for at least 5 years and then rethink down the road . Would we allow immigration from Japan during WW2 ? Same situation as I see it .

[B4Ranch]

>>. Hospitals don't go out of business because they have too many patients, they go out of business when they have too few.<<

The hospitals on the border are going BANKRUPT because the FEDS are not paying the full costs of treating the ill illegals in the ER rooms.

[Plutarch]

What's more important than a healthy economy?

Massive anarchic illegal immigration = healthy economy?

Is that why California has been an economic powerhouse of late, with the State coffers overflowing?

Do you have a scintilla of evidence to support your claim, save for what's good for the National Restaurant Association is good for America?

[B4Ranch]

Arizona is the temporary home of 500,000 illegal aliens. They cost Arizona taxpayers over $1 billion annually in services for schools, medical care, welfare anchor babies, loss of tax base and prisons.

http://www.federalobserver.com/archive.php?aid=8871

[bayourod]

"You ignored the parts of the article dealing with the Chechen terrorists, as reported by Gertz. "

I quoted the part saying the report was not proven true. Here, I'll repost the entire paragraph.

"A second U.S. official said the report is being investigated, but said it could not be determined whether the group of Chechens actually entered the country, as the intelligence source reported. "We don't know whether or not that report is true," this official said. "

You are really not prepared to discuss immigration issues. Why don't you lurk these threads for a few weeks before trying to enter the discussions.

[Dat Mon]

You said..."What is the distinction between a legal immigrant, an illegal one, and a guest worker, except their government classification?"

How about their ATTITUDE.

How about their MOTIVATION

How about their desire to become an AMERICAN CITIZEN, FIRST AND FOREMOST.

How about their showing respect for their soon to be adopted country, by FOLLOWING ITS ESTABLISHED LAWS.

How about instilling in their children, by example, the goal of following the rules and working within the system like all the other millions of others before them.

How about looking on America as something other than a paycheck, or a handout.

[Joe Hadenuf]

The hospitals on the border are going BANKRUPT because the FEDS are not paying the full costs of treating the ill illegals in the ER rooms.

You could hit this boyorod guy in the head with a combat loaded tank, and he either wouldn't get it, or would just refuse to acknowledge it.

[Dat Mon]

"You are really not prepared to discuss immigration issues. Why don't you lurk these threads for a few weeks before trying to enter the discussions."

Thanks for the advice.

[B4Ranch]

I am getting curious as to just who is paying him to wear the blinders.

[Reaganwuzthebest]

Why don't you lurk these threads for a few weeks before trying to enter the discussions.

Why don't you do us a favor and lurk for a while. All you do is hijack these threads and are convincing nobody that Bush's scheme is good for the country. Most of us know better.

[Joe Hadenuf]

I am sorry, but this guy is a commie leftist moron, or just a freak. I don't like getting personal here, but I've had enough of his bull shit. Excuse my french.

[B4Ranch]

>>What is the distinction between a legal immigrant, an illegal one, and a guest worker, except their government classification?<<

The answer is found here.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode08/usc_sup_01_8_10_12_20_II.html

US CODE COLLECTION

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TITLE 8 > CHAPTER 12 > SUBCHAPTER II
SUBCHAPTER II—IMMIGRATION
Release date: 2004-02-11
Part I—Selection System Part II—Admission Qualifications for Aliens; Travel Control of Citizens and Aliens Part III—Issuance of Entry Documents Part IV—Inspection, Apprehension, Examination, Exclusion, and Removal Part V—Adjustment and Change of Status Part VI—Special Provisions Relating to Alien Crewmen Part VII—Registration of Aliens Part VIII—General Penalty Provisions Part IX—Miscellaneous	Search this title: Notes Your comments

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[Dat Mon]

"A second U.S. official said the report is being investigated, but said it could not be determined whether the group of Chechens actually entered the country, as the intelligence source reported. "We don't know whether or not that report is true," this official said. "

Thats all you needed to hear, eh?

Get real mon

[Joe Taranto]

I just feel that we're completely hypocritical on this issue, because we preach that the illegals drain our system, and are law breakers, but are too afraid to do anything about it. I guess the reason I like the ideas put forth by President Bush is that he's actually confronting an issue which it seems has not been dealt with in at least twenty years. He may not be taking the best stand, but at least he's TAKING one.

I feel we have so many laws which "thwart" illegal immigration, but they still come in by the thousands. If the government really cared, these laws would be enforced, but they're not. So if the government is too afraid to enforce its laws, then at least iron out a way that they are WILLING to deal with this problem. Maybe Bush's plan will be modified to protect everyone's interests. Who knows? But by simply raising the issue, I think he will bring enough attention to it one way or the other, where the people will demand a change.

Maybe the government can develop a program which would close, militarize and strengthen the border, and let in immigrants on a strictly legal basis, the way it was done for years. Maybe simply open a few more seats for average working Mexicans who want to feed their families. Many of them could potentially contribute a lot here; I know of Mexican workers who ARE taxed and whose salaries top those of teachers and other respected professions. These people deserve to be here more than the (unsure of an exact number) of people on the welfare rolls draining the system in that respect, who haven't even opened up to a Classified page in 17 and a half years.

I just feel one way or the other, something needs to be done, and our policy needs to become more clearly defined. I admittedly have a bias toward the Mexican workers because I've witnessed firsthand their work ethic and determination to support their family, which I think is truly lacking among Americans. It's not their fault their government is so corrupt ;)

[LADY J]

"What's more important than a healthy economy?"

With your logic - just let illegals and possible terrorists in and we can die rich!

[janetgreen]

Arizona is the temporary home of 500,000 illegal aliens. They cost Arizona taxpayers over $1 billion annually in services for schools, medical care, welfare anchor babies, loss of tax base and prisons.

As our old pal Bill Clinton used to say, "I feel your pain". California is the not-so-temporary home of several million illegal aliens. They cost California taxpayers an estimated 9 billion annually for the same services you list.

The person who should be paying the bills is Senor Vicente Fox, who thinks that his outcasts are the responsibility of American taxpayers.