Posted on 01/26/2005 5:22:19 PM PST by Vermonter
You're being obtuse. These are fields that use UNIX, and an engineering grad with no UNIX experience might have a hard time. Someone educated solely on Windows might have a problem being dumped in front of a mainframe.
How many would be fired immediately if they started monkying around with the inner workings of their networked CAD design programs ?
Or how about just maintaining those systems? I also know a nuclear engineer who had to do a lot of UNIX programming as part of his engineering job.
Microsoft might be good for the general purpose computing world, but you need to know UNIX if you're going to work with mainframes, supercomputers or high-end workstations.
Sorry, there are a couple of Windows supercomputers, very expensive, and very low on the list.
"You're being obtuse."
LOL - My original point was that people who are NOT being taught how to use the most common operating system in the world are being given a poor education.
EVERY profession, EVERY type of employment.
Somehow, you have decided to focus on that exceeding small percentage of engineers, ONLY engineers whose system happens too be based on UNIX, that MAY be called upon to effectivly rebuild or customize the tool they are using in their career, instead of calling upon engineers whose career and specialty IS programming UNIX boxes.
... but I'M the one being obtuse.... LOL
And UNIX is a very common OS in many engineering fields. It's also very common in CAD, 3D animation, mainframes and supercomputers (the last two of which Windows knowledge will be of no use).
instead of calling upon engineers whose career and specialty IS programming UNIX boxes.
And a lot of them gained that speciality because of having to rebuild and customize their tools. Like I gave Cliff Stoll as a prime, famous example, but your Microsoft-centered brain probably doesn't know who he is.
"Like I gave Cliff Stoll as a prime, famous example, but your Microsoft-centered brain probably doesn't know who he is."
One has to wonder if Stoll would have still been an astronomer if his grant money had not run out...
but nevertheless, do you deny that by far and away the most used OS in the real world for real workers is a Microsoft product ?
Where ever my brain is centered these days, it does not change the FACT that most people who use a computer will sit in front of a machine running some Microsoft product.
Most cars on the road have the steering wheel on the left side .... would you think a school was doing its students a disservice they taught on right-hand drive cars ?
Ah, I see you found out who he is and then tried to change the subject. Back then, there was NO Microsoft anything capable of doing the work he was doing. BTW, his actions did a lot to help our national security, trapping a spy ring that was digging around in our military computer systems.
but nevertheless, do you deny that by far and away the most used OS in the real world for real workers is a Microsoft product ?
The most used general-purpose personal computer OS, yes. The most used in all applications, no.
it does not change the FACT that most people who use a computer will sit in front of a machine running some Microsoft product.
So? They'll learn computing concepts on a Mac, which are transferrable to Windows. As another poster noted, Mac today is what Windows will be by the time the little buggers get out of school anyway. Look at the feature list for Longhorn and see how much is in OS X now.
would you think a school was doing its students a disservice they taught on right-hand drive cars ?
Switching is not difficult. But it would be a bad idea considering that NO ONE in this country drives right-hand-drive on the left, as opposed to over 14 million OS X Macs out there and millions more Linux and other *NIX systems.
"Ah, I see you found out who he is and then tried to change the subject."
LOL --- I'm changing the subject ! ... but I'll go with it -- This famous person who couldn't get paid to do astronomy so they kicked him into figuring out how the ACCOUNTING system didn't work right, and he stumbles upon hackers... a wonderfull story, worthy of a book ( oops it IS a book, how about that ? :-)
"Back then, there was NO Microsoft anything capable of doing the work he was doing."
... and if their WAS ... HE probably would have learned how to use it !
"So? They'll learn computing concepts on a Mac, which are transferrable to Windows."
So 97% of the people have to re-learn ? No problem, it's just our educational money that might otherwise be just tossed away on, oh say, astronomy grants...
"But it would be a bad idea considering that NO ONE in this country drives right-hand-drive on the left."
Sorry - many post office vehicles and automated garbage pickup trucks are right hand drive, and I DO see right hand drive cars on the road occasionally.
"Thus you could have approximately the same number of Apple users/customers - but it wouldn't necessarily show in sales figures."
If these figures are anywhere near correct -
http://www.pegasus3d.com/total_share.html
if EVERY Apple/Macintosh computer ever sold were still in use today it would not get even close to the number of PC's sold last year alone.
Backups are critical. LOL
Check your history - the majority of 3D modeling, as well as other graphics software STARTED on the Macintosh platform.... Why do you thing the Mac got the early reputation as a "graphics" machine? And a sizable portion of movie/TV special effects are still processed on Macintosh. Let's also not ignore the digital audio realm - which also is dominant - with ProTools being first built for the MacOS - and still receives the biggest part of it's development. The only field that I see as neglected on the Mac is CAD/CAM - very limited options there. And my couple-of-year old Dual processor G4 still runs rings around every computer in our school district - including the newest machines running XP. A fact easily demonstrated. And I have worked around a whole lot of computers in the last several years - running anything from Windows 3.1 up to XP, Linux (various flavors), and MacOS - and the only one that has demonstrated anywhere near the stability of my machine running the latest version of OSX is a Linux box. And that one isn't much fun to set up and configure. And this is with people trained and knowledgeable in computer set-up/operation/maintenance/ and even some programming. But I gave up trying to convince people I know to buy Macintosh systems - I found it to be a self-punishing endeavor. So I just use my machine and let people watch it work when I can. I never cease to be amazed at how many folks still say "I didn't know a Mac could do that", or "Wow, I wish my computer could do that".
According to that page, Apple sold 3.5 million Macs in 2004 -
Sounds like a number worth paying attention to from a developer's point of view.
"Sounds like a number worth paying attention to from a developer's point of view."
Hey, theres a market there... But if you had a really good idea, would you shoot for the small market first and then hope noone else clones your idea and hits the big market with it before you get there ?
... or go for all the marbles, let Microsoft buy you out, and retire to your private island ?
You see everything in percentages. How about developing for a platform with 14 million installs and rising? It looks like Best Buy will be stocking the Mac mini. I expect over 20 million OS X installs by the end of the year, but only if Apple can have enough Mac minis manufactured to meet the demand.
Your humor astounds & amazes me...
"You see everything in percentages. How about developing for a platform with 14 million installs and rising?"
- thats a bit less then 2 months worth of Windows XP sales -
http://www.winnetmag.com/Article/ArticleID/42538/42538.html
Hmmm ... develop for a 14 Million+ market or a 210 Million+ market
Or how about for both? Adobe and Microsoft both seem to think that's profitable. But then there's another angle: You can develop for Linux or other *NIXes, and also port to OS X.
"Adobe and Microsoft both seem to think that's profitable."
Sure both of them are willing to pick up the extra 3 % or so... which do you think they would concentrate on first ?
Are Linux install numbers running a bit more or a bit less then Mac OS these days ?
Sometimes it feels like my whole system is built on a honeypot ...
Would you rather hire a driver that learned on a stick shift on winding snowey mountain roads, or one that only knows how to drive a Mercedes on open highway ?
Sorry, but it's NO DIFFERENT whenever you change computing environments... It simply doesn't matter... When you change from software A to software B, people are going to complain, and you're going to get lots of lost productivity.
I've been part of LOTS of different conversions... Law firms that went from Word Perfect to MS Word. DTP firms that went from WordStar on CPM systems to Word Perfect on PCs. From Informix SmartWare running on MS-DOS to MS Office on Windows 3.1! Intergraph *IX workstations to PCs running Autocad!
And I dare you to try changing someone's email system!
The simple fact is that when you change how someone does their job, bad things WILL happen! It's wrong to claim that "those dumb Mac users can't do anything on their own!" I'd like to see how productive you are on a system that you've never used before. For instance, I wonder if you know how to submit a job using IBM 370 System OS using JCL cards? I used to know how...
Mark
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