[BikerNYC]

Good question. Possible arguments include:
* We owe our existence to Him since He is our Creator.
* He is smarter/wiser/more capable than us and therefore someone we should listen to.
* As our designer, He knows what's best for us.
* What He is asking us to do, love, mercy, justice is the right thing to do.
* Because He has power to determine our fate.
* Because He loved us first, while we were sinners


Those are fine answers, but tell me where any of those rules comes from.

For example, why should we do what our creator tells us to do? Just because he tells us to? That sounds rather circular.

He should do what he tells us because he loves us first? Why should we do what the entity who loves us first tells us to do?

All of your reasons are good ones, but they are all your reasons. They are not God's. You are deciding, for better or worse, that it is good to listen to God for all of those reasons, yet the only grounding for those reasons is your own choice. Accordingly, you are making your own morality and the "pure standard" you speak of is nothing but one standard among many.

We all have that responsibility of determining right from wrong and doing right.

Why should we do what's right when that right is defined by something other than ourselves? Because God can cause us pain? But still you define your own morality. It is better to do what you are told than to experience pain. That rule does not come from God, it comes from you. You decide what is right and wrong for yourself whether you believe in God or not.

[DannyTN]

You are deciding, for better or worse, that it is good to listen to God for all of those reasons, yet the only grounding for those reasons is your own choice. Accordingly, you are making your own morality and the "pure standard" you speak of is nothing but one standard among many.

It's true that it's my decision to listen to God and I've chosen that based on reasons that seem logical and right to me. But I don't think it's true that the only grounding for those reasons is my own choice.

• I have knowledge of right and wrong. I do not believe that it is merely a societal norm, although societies can certainly influence that perception.
• I also have knowledge of various religions and based on what I've learned, it seems to me that the Bible hold up the highest standard. The others hold up a form of morality but I find various moral and logical flaws with them.
• While those reasons, I've listed are mine, they are also universal. Some of them are reasons that God Himself has told us. Some just seem logical.

Accordingly, you are making your own morality and the "pure standard" you speak of is nothing but one standard among many

No, I might be living according to the decisions I make and thstandards I set for myself, but ultimately I'm measured against the standards He set for me. The same pure standard will be applied to all.

I don't know that all the reasons I gave are rules per se, but I think God Himself is the source of them. It doesn't seem right to reject our Creator or not love or have mercy or do justice, or return His love. It doesn't seem wise, to not listen to the Lord's council, or fear His power.

For example, why should we do what our creator tells us to do? Just because he tells us to? That sounds rather circular.

I don't think it's circular. Perhaps the question should be "why not?" or what's the alternative? When you look at what He's asked us to do, your question becomes, "Why should we love others just because God tells us to?" Because it's the right thing to do, and it doesn't matter that our knowledge of right and wrong comes from Him.

You decide what is right and wrong for yourself whether you believe in God or not.

I believe that knowledge of right and wrong is universal and comes from outside of ourselves. Yes we decide whether to accept that universal knowledge or reject it. And we live accordingly. But it is the universal standard that we are judged against.

And here's the deal... God has already judged us against His standard and found us lacking. "none are righteous". We have already been condemned. But then God chose to offer a substitute payment, Himself. Through Jesus we can be pardoned. Our failure to live up to His standard can be washed clean.

It is His creation. It is His rules. But I can find no fault in them. Not only can I find no fault in the standard that He condemns me by. How can I reject His grace when it is freely offered? It makes no sense not to.