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To: narby
If we tried to force ID into schools, I think the effort would fail.

I assume you mean it would fail in the courts. The PA schools read their "ID is a scientific theory" nonsense a few weeks ago. It won't win everywhere but it won't fail everywhere either (unless you mean the courts will forbid it).

If this emotional Evolution argument is allowed to spill over into general conservative politics, it will be an albatross around our neck like the gay marriage issue is for the Dems.

I'm not so sure

This argument I think is also detrimental to the faith of young people caught in the middle.

Absolutely 100% agree. I know it hindered mine when I was young(er).

357 posted on 01/26/2005 12:47:08 PM PST by bigLusr (Quiquid latine dictum sit altum viditur)
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To: bigLusr
I assume you mean it would fail in the courts. The PA schools read their "ID is a scientific theory" nonsense a few weeks ago. It won't win everywhere but it won't fail everywhere either (unless you mean the courts will forbid it).

What will probably happen is that high schools will avoid the problem and just won't teach ID, or Evolution, or much of biology, at all. They're already looking for excuses for dumbing down the curriculum so their union employees don't have to study their subjects.

The Creation Institute clowns probably will not like this result. They depend on controversy for a living. If ID was accepted completely, then they would have to find other controversies, like the civil rights organizations did.

The universities don't care what anyone says. They'll do what they like. They'll have enough judges as alumni that they will not be forced into anything.

But if the fight really hit the full mainstream, and scientists got off their duff and onto the boob tube and explained their case. A few dozen programs on the Discovery Channel, for example. Then the polls where people seem to favor literal creationism I think would fade fast.

There are lots of people that just studied the subject for a few days in school, and really don't know much about it. Educating them completely would change their minds.

Also, the generation that witnessed the scopes monkey trial is just about gone. That was a huge embarrassment for creationism literalists, and they are just now raising their head up into the mainstream again. They'll get their hand slapped again and they'll disappear again like last time. Their literal interpretation of Genesis has'nt changed, but the understanding of Evolution via DNA etc. has been increased drastically.

They'll lose a genuine public argument. Again.

367 posted on 01/26/2005 1:18:56 PM PST by narby ( A truly Intelligent Designer, would have designed Evolution)
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To: bigLusr; narby
Narby: If this emotional Evolution argument is allowed to spill over into general conservative politics, it will be an albatross around our neck like the gay marriage issue is for the Dems.

BigLusr: I'm not so sure

I totally agree with Narby in concept, but same sex unions aren't the albatross that they were made out to be. In the 2004 presidential election, 47% of Bush voters are in favor of either same sex marriage or civil unions - this number swells to 60% when its applied to all voters. In reality, the moderates which are the difference makers in elections didn't really care that much.

Narby is totally correct that we have to be careful where we spend our political capital. To that point, we as a party have to decide if abortion is the ONLY issue that we care about because it will take ALL of our political capital for possibly a generation if try to pack the court with justices adversarial to Roe V Wade.

In the 2004 presidential election, 55% of the voters believe abortion should be legal or mostly legal and 42% believe it should be illegal or mostly illegal. 37% of Bush voters fall into the legal or mostly legal group.

The 55% in favor of legalized abortion will swell if Roe V Wade is ever perceived to be under any real threat. If a SCOTUS vacancy comes up before 2006 and conservatives publicly make abortion policy the number one qualification, then the senate will be probably be lost in the 2006 mid-term elections as many pro-abortion republicans will be forced to change parties for their political survival.

I'm just saying that we as conservatives have to look at the big picture when it comes to the image we portray and the manner in which we spend political capital. There are lots of issues that are important to the very survival to this country (immigration, national defense, national sovereignty, tax reform, tort reform, property rights, etc) that we do have the political capital to address if we have the will and proper foresight.

With all of these other critical issues, is it really wise to spend all of our political capital on stickers for texbooks? Most kids sleep through science class anyway and don't remember anything from it.

380 posted on 01/26/2005 2:06:44 PM PST by JeffAtlanta
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