Web site to reveal salaries (teachers' salaries)

Times Leader ^ | 1/22/2005 | BONNIE ADAMS

[pageonetoo]

...Did I mention that our school district embarked on a massive rebuilding program a couple of years ago? They are replacing ALL schools older than 30 years or so. Since many of our buildings were built in the late 50's and early 60's, I just have a hard time seeing them as unserviceable. It's more about the school board wanting the best of everything, and not getting enough outrage from the tax-payers.

They been playing too much...

[mrfixit514]

Oh boy. Here we go again. This must be the "Bash the Teachers" daily thread. We are going to hear from every negative butthole on FR who thinks he/she is the only worker that deserves a big salary.

There are so many administrators in some systems that it makes the average salaries look really big. They make twice as much or more than some regular classroom teachers.

In Georgia, teahcers salaries (from the state) are public info. Each system then adds a supplement to attract teachers. If the system is paying too much or providing too many benefits, that is their own fault. Just remember, you get what you pay for.

[Labyrinthos]

The 2004-2005 spreadsheet the school district compiled lists 27 teachers being paid the top annual salary of $71,408.

Not bad for a part-time job.

[Clara Lou]

I do get tired of people lumping all teachers together in the NEA pot and failing to recognize the good ones.
See... the secret is not to let this get under your skin. I got to the point where I didn't even visit education threads for a while. I guess that I've developed thicker skin.
I've dedcided that these bashers think that what may be true in their little corner of the universe is true of the entire universe. They extrapolate their truths from too small a sample. I've also decided that there are a few who carry chips on their shoulders as a result of their own educational experiences.
For myself, I've taught 15 years in Texas [after staying home to raise my 4 children]. I have accrued a huge number of days off because I show up for work every day. I have no hope of ever being paid for those days when I retire because of the way things are in Texas. As for my salary, anyone in Texas can look at my school district's pay ladder and find out how much I earn. In Texas, no teacher union bargaining, no secrets.
I'm laughing at the guy who assures us that, in Georgia, a teacher can retire at 90% salary at age 55. Should it turn out to be true, I'd like to find out how we can get that going in Texas. ~not holding my breath~

[Clara Lou]

In Georgie...it's 30 years service or age 60, whichever comes first.
In Texas we have the "rule of 80" for retirement. When your years of service and your age add up to 80, you can take early retirement. I believe full retirement is still 65.

[Amelia]

Not bad for a part-time job.

You could apply.

But those are probably the coaches and/or band directors who, during football season, work 12 hour days Monday through Thursday and 16 hours on Friday.

They also work summers with their students, and the band directors work on the various holidays that have parades.

[SALChamps03]

How is posting their salaries during a contract negotiation "holding them accountable?" Salaries are based on years experience, and degrees obtained. They don't give those degrees away. They are earned.

[Amelia]

Hi, Clara Lou! Long time no see!

I'm still hoping that the poster is correct! I'd like to know that I could retire in just a few years, making almost as much as I'm making now.... ;-)

[pesto]

I know a lot of school disctrict websites that post salary schedules. Did they post actual teachers names and salaries??

[Labyrinthos]

But those are probably the coaches and/or band directors who, during football season, work 12 hour days Monday through Thursday and 16 hours on Friday. They also work summers with their students, and the band directors work on the various holidays that have parades.

In my area, the coaches and band directors, receive extra compensation on top of the hefty salary they receive as a teacher. I also suspect that the coaches really like what they do because they enjoy the game and want to be close to the action in a sport they can no longer play competitively. They end up making a few thousand extra dollars for something they would probably do for free. That's the equivalent of paying me to go fishing.

[DanTheAdmin]

I don't know about other states, but in Maryland every employee's salary is a matter of public record...

[Amelia]

In my area, the coaches and band directors, receive extra compensation on top of the hefty salary they receive as a teacher. I also suspect that the coaches really like what they do because they enjoy the game and want to be close to the action in a sport they can no longer play competitively. They end up making a few thousand extra dollars for something they would probably do for free. That's the equivalent of paying me to go fishing.

I don't know how this particular county posted compensation - whether supplements were included or whether only base salary was published.

I know that our salary schedule is on the web, and at one point a spreadsheet with individual names and compensation was posted - HOWEVER, the number beside my name was larger than the number on my W-2, because it also included the employer contribution to social security, etc.

I couldn't afford to do it for free, but I do teach because I love it. (It doesn't mean I can't objectively see the benefits and drawbacks compared to working in industry, however...)

[zeugma]

I've advocated monthly drug testing of all elected officials for years.

[RandDisciple]

A good review of the studies showing that education majors have the lowest entering SAT scores and post-grad admission scores, are found in the following two Walter Williams articles: "http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/williams041999. http://capmag.com/article.asp?ID=3700
People advising that we spend more money on education, where the vast majority of the funds go to the existing poorly qualified teachers, is beyond foolish. If education is so important to these liberals, why do they not allow better qualified teachers the chance to teach by removing union and tenure rules. The conduct of public education in this country is such a fraud that it should basically be defined as criminal conduct by those involved.

[RavenATB]

"Your accusation of whining is utterly ridiculous."

From the responses you got, it appears that your defensive posture about your whining is what's ridiculous.

"I did not say my wife was complaining of the expenses, nor was she whining about it."

I didn't respond by saying your wife was whining...I said you were whining. You're still whining. Are you a teacher, too?

"A lot of you people are so warped by the NEA that you cannot see that there are excellent individual teachers that work very hard and do a good job even in the public schools."

I'd suggest that its easier to find someone on the NEA membership roles who is "warped" than on this board.
By the way, its too bad those excellent teachers are more the exception than the rule.

"It is one thing to whine and complain about how terrible one's pay is or how bad one's work conditions are, and it is quite another to realistically state what the situation is."

Teachers know their "situation" when they sign their contract. If the situation is so bad, they can get out. You can't advertise a teacher (non-specialized) vacancy in most places across this nation without getting dozens of applications. GET OUT! There are plenty of people waiting for teaching jobs. There are many other professions where people with better educations and higher skills dedicate more time, take more risk, and endure worse conditions...all for less money. Many of those professions have their salaries listed on the Internet! And, unlike teachers (and their husbands), THEY'RE NOT WHINING ABOUT IT!!!

"I know some excellent teachers and I know some lousy ones. I do get tired of people lumping all teachers together in the NEA pot and failing to recognize the good ones."

A large number of "the good ones" think the same of the NEA as do many of us.

[RavenATB]

"For crying out loud, some of you people are utterly unreasonable."

Unreasonable? Try telling the staff of a union-represented school that you're going to implement mandatory subject knowledge and performance standards for teachers, and that if they don't exceed a certain level of performance that their tenure will be set aside and they'll be let go.

People are sick and tired of asking for a modest level of performance from a public education system that for over forty years has increased in cost at twice the speed of inflation. People are sick and tired of hearing that it costs nearly $100,000 to get a kid through 12th grade and by the time the taxpayers have been sufficiently raped, hearing that any given high school graduate is as likely as not to have basic skill levels that would have been dwarfed by a eighth grade kid educated in a one-room schoolhouse just 100 years ago.

The American public education system is a national disgrace--a national disaster.

From the 1983 report, "A NATION AT RISK":

Commenting on the state of the American public education system:

"If an unfriendly foreign power had attempted to impose on America the mediocre educational performance that exists today, we might well have viewed it as an act of war."

"We have, in effect, been committing an act of unthinking, unilateral educational disarmament."

[RavenATB]

Who fights harder to prevent any move to reform public education than public school teachers?

There is no debating that the performance of American public schools is a national disgrace. Standardized test scores and international academic competition put a blinding light on the failure of American public education.

But, what these "professional educators" apparently don't want to talk about is the fact that every year we go without making drastic changes to reform this system millions of American kids are cheated out of the education they have a right to expect. And, the American taxpayers are cheated out of the money they pay in good faith to provide for that education.

Don't tell me that the average public school teacher puts the education of their students as their highest professional priority, because that's not true. Teachers are on the front line of this disaster--they know better than most Americans just how corrupt and inept the system has become. But when people talk about trying to improve the system the people fighting performance standards and subject knowledge testing are the teachers...they want no accountability.

When people discuss school vouchers who is most vocal in condemning the suggestion? Normally its public school teachers and the union officials who represent them. Those admonitions clearly demonstrate that to most public school teachers maintaining the system is more important than improving the product. More clearly stated, its better to trap children in a system in which they may have little or no chance to get an education than to force the public schools to operate from a smaller pot of money.

If the teaching community had a shred of credibility when they speak about "caring" for their students they'd be first in line, crying out to shut down this failing experiment and start something new and completely different.

The truth is that as a group, the public education community is the problem--they're not part of the problem. The education and welfare of their students is not their main professional priority. In fact, the students' welfare isn't important enough to even get them to willingly discuss questioning the status quo.

[Amelia]

Who fights harder to prevent any move to reform public education than public school teachers?

Well, there are the parents of public school children.

You know, the ones who think their darlings ought to be able to come to school with hair of any length, color, or shape, wearing whatever best expresses their individuality...

The ones who think their little darlings will be irretrievably warped if they have to listen to a Bible story or say the Pledge of Allegiance or if they get a spanking....

The ones who don't think their babies ought to be punished for cheating or for anything else, because their babies are always right and the teacher is always wrong...

You know the ones, I'm sure.

[Amelia]

People are sick and tired of asking for a modest level of performance from a public education system that for over forty years has increased in cost at twice the speed of inflation.

There are a number of reasons for that increase in cost, and not all of them have to do with classroom instruction. For instance, in many districts, the number of administrators and central office personnel, and the salaries of the same, have ballooned.

Many parents now expect their children to learn using computers and other technology that is a tiny bit more expensive than a chalkboard.

And then we have special education. Some of the children who are now in public school would have been in institutions 40 years ago. I don't doubt that the parents need some respite, but some of the children are not being educated, they are just being cared for, and it's expensive.

Nothing is quite as simplistic as you'd like it to be, I'm afraid.

[DugwayDuke]

Thanks for the link.

"People advising that we spend more money on education, where the vast majority of the funds go to the existing poorly qualified teachers, is beyond foolish."

Every time some one tells me that we should increase teacher's salaries so we can get 'better' teachers, I ask: "what will you do with the teachers you have"?

This question is guaranteed to upset any teacher since they usually see where this leads.

If the present teachers are not 'better', then they should be fired when you get the 'better' teachers. If they are not going to be fired, then the teachers you have are fine and you don't need to pay more to get 'better' ones.

"If education is so important to these liberals, why do they not allow better qualified teachers the chance to teach by removing union and tenure rules."

Qualified is defined by the NEA, as some one who has taken certain courses in educational methodology. You do know that you can teach any subject without subject matter courses?