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To: unlearner
FYI, it has been known that the earth is spherical, and its approximate size has been known by some cultures, for a long time. The measurements to achieve such knowledge are not difficult for an ancient society with reasonable math skills. link

Religious fundamentalists in the past fought tooth and nail against observations like non-geocentricity and other planets possessing moons. Just as some now fight the scale and age of the universe and the evidence that points to the fact of evolution. Fortunately we no longer burn people at the stake for such beliefs.

1,105 posted on 01/30/2005 1:43:44 AM PST by Thatcherite (Conservative and Biblical Literalist are not synonymous)
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To: Thatcherite
"Religious fundamentalists in the past fought tooth and nail against observations like non-geocentricity and other planets possessing moons. Just as some now fight the scale and age of the universe and the evidence that points to the fact of evolution. Fortunately we no longer burn people at the stake for such beliefs."

Please keep in mind that, in these past debates, both sides were religious. In fact, the religion you are talking about fought just as hard to suppress the doctrine of salvation by grace. Further, the dogmatism that caused people to burn others at the stake for being RIGHT does not reside exclusively with the "religious", at least not by the definition of "piety".

This issue, regardless of who is right, can be used by political opportunists as a wedge or even to politically "persecute" those who do not serve their cause.

For example, the left knows very well that conservative Christians oppose special rights based on sexual orientation, government subsidized abortion, and other parts of their agenda. They also know that many in this same group are Creationists. Liberals have no problem quoting from the Bible when it serves their purposes. They also have no problem using issues like evolution as an excuse to prohibit freedom of religion.

There are some people in our land who have no appreciation for rule of law or liberty. In fact, they want the opposite. I am sure you and other evolution proponents on this site are not among them. But this issue can be and is being hijacked by people who do not represent your political ideology. There are people who would like to burn the Christians at the stake. And if this could be done based upon some Christians' apparent unscientific teachings, so be it.

You may think this fear is unfounded, but I present to you that we are not more than 80 years behind Nazi Germany in this regard. They had the best scientists in the world, but that did not stop fascism from taking hold of the nation. Germany's fall to Nazism happened almost suddenly (on the surface). It can happen here.

Now, I may think the Amish are backward folk. I may think they really need to teach their children to appreciate the scientific and other progresses we have made as a society. But it would be wrong to FORCE them to abandon their way of life merely because I think my views are better.

This is a more significant issue than evolution itself. Do you really want your science to be hijacked by thought police? The liberals can nod their heads and tell Christians they sympathize with their views and yet not believe or understand them. They can do the same with scientists. They can nod their heads and say they believe evolution is a fact, even though they understand it no better than those debating you here. They care not. To them, everything is about their power and enriching themselves with wealth they have not earned and have no right to.

"Unless you want to reject science entirely then it is incumbent on 'your side of the argument' to produce theories that explain the facts better than the current theories."

This is a fair piece of advice as to the theory debate. I don't think we will settle this debate any time soon. The saying "agree to disagree" applies, and I don't mean that lightly. I will defend your right to your opinions, even if I disagree with them. I hope you will do the same.
1,106 posted on 01/30/2005 9:14:52 AM PST by unlearner
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