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Ayatollahs in the classroom [Evolution and Creationism]
Berkshire Eagle (Mass.) ^ | 22 January 2005 | Staff

Posted on 01/22/2005 7:38:12 AM PST by PatrickHenry

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To: Southack
That's a Boolean option. Either it has the resistant trait or it doesn't.

That's easy to answer. The original single individual does not have the trait. After many generations, some of the descendents do have the trait. It is easy to demonstrate that the colony starts with one individual. It is easy to demonstrate that the resulting colony has variation.

641 posted on 01/23/2005 3:43:48 PM PST by js1138
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To: self_evident

"...Yes, it is bizarre, and their "faith" is much more like science than it is faith...."

I agree. I had not thought about that extension of what I said, but it certainly does follow.


642 posted on 01/23/2005 3:48:49 PM PST by e p1uribus unum
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To: js1138
It is easy to demonstrate that the resulting colony has variation.

Proof -- if only you weren't so blind! -- that a miracle happened in your petri dish.
</creationism mode>

643 posted on 01/23/2005 3:50:12 PM PST by PatrickHenry (<-- Click on my name. The List-O-Links for evolution threads is at my freeper homepage.)
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To: PatrickHenry
You may eat the following: locusts of every variety; all varieties of bald locust; crickets of every variety; and all varieties of grasshopper, but all other winged swarming things that have four legs shall be an abomination for you. Lev. 11: 22-23

Locusts have six legs, dammit! This passage implies they have only four.

644 posted on 01/23/2005 4:09:43 PM PST by Junior (FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC)
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To: PatrickHenry

From the website:

"You may eat the following: locusts of every variety; all varieties of bald locust; crickets of every variety; and all varieties of grasshopper, but all other winged swarming things that have four legs shall be an abomination for you. Lev. 11: 22-23......"

Not to be picky, but grasshoppers, crickets and locusts, have six legs, making the word "other" possibly incorrect. An elaboration I found in my King James allows any hopping insect which would include leafhoppers and such.


Interpretation is absolutely required for this to make sense.

Same goes for ferns, mosses, mushrooms, slimemolds and bacteria. Not listed in Creation, even though the first three would have been obvious to people.

I am certain G-d's word is inerrant. I'm not at all sure the people who wrote it down were.


645 posted on 01/23/2005 4:16:10 PM PST by e p1uribus unum
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To: Doctor Stochastic

Umm..yes, you are correct that procedure would work.

Are you likely to volunteer? ;->


646 posted on 01/23/2005 4:20:06 PM PST by e p1uribus unum
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To: Junior

Sorry, I was busily typing when you had gotten there first and better.


647 posted on 01/23/2005 4:22:01 PM PST by e p1uribus unum
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To: e p1uribus unum

Great minds go to Hell in the same handbasket, evidently...


648 posted on 01/23/2005 4:25:03 PM PST by Junior (FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC)
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To: js1138
"That's easy to answer. The original single individual does not have the trait. After many generations, some of the descendents do have the trait. It is easy to demonstrate that the colony starts with one individual. It is easy to demonstrate that the resulting colony has variation."

Easy?! ...And all this time I was under the impression that some genetic traits were recessive. That whole "you'll be bald if your maternal uncle was bald" thing must be out of date...

649 posted on 01/23/2005 4:38:19 PM PST by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: Southack; PatrickHenry; Doctor Stochastic; balrog666; RadioAstronomer; jennyp; Junior; ...

Explain to us how recessive traits work in bacteria.


650 posted on 01/23/2005 4:43:25 PM PST by js1138
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To: Southack
Easy?! ...And all this time I was under the impression that some genetic traits were recessive.

I think you are a little recessive when it comes to providing the results (probabilities) of your mathematical calculation.

651 posted on 01/23/2005 4:43:59 PM PST by WildTurkey (When will CBS Retract and Apologize?)
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To: js1138

Ah yes ... it's a high fly ball ... over center field ... easy out.


652 posted on 01/23/2005 4:46:15 PM PST by PatrickHenry (<-- Click on my name. The List-O-Links for evolution threads is at my freeper homepage.)
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To: Alacarte
Archaeologists study past cultures by examining the artifacts those cultures left behind. Geologists can describe past changes in sea level by studying the marks ocean waves left on rocks. Paleontologists study the fossilized remains of organisms that lived long ago.

Don't patronize me, especially with respectable examples that are about 1000 intellectual miles from Darwinism.

Are Margaret Meade and Alfred Kinsey are in your pantheon of "scientists" too?

653 posted on 01/23/2005 4:49:14 PM PST by iconoclast (Conservative, not partisan.)
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To: JeffAtlanta
Anguish has it right - I'm actually pretty impressed that a Swede would know more about constitutional law than 99% of Americans. Most Americans have no idea that the Bill of Rights, as written, only applies to the federal government and rights that we see as fundamental such as the freedom of speech or religion could have been negated by state or local governments prior to the 14th Amendment and subsequent SCOTUS rulings.

No doubt anguish is one smart Swede but he is wrong on the "Constitution being apllied to the states" as a general statement and wrong in this particular case as are you. All state constitutions enumerated speech and religion rights prior to 20th Century incorporation of certain of the BOR's to the states.

The 14A is a club used by federal courts to put their noses in where they don't belong and anti-thetical in that regard to the original intent of the founders.

The anti federalists feared an overly strong central government lording iver the states and they were exactly right. Nothing in the Constitution, the 14A, the 1A or Constitutional jurisprudence prohibits an acknowldgement of a Creator. Not that the CC BOEd even metnioned such.

What the judge accomplishes, and you seemingly support, is a further poisoning of the well and stoking the flames of the culture war. Culture wars persist because unelected judges make rulings such as these and use the power of the fedgov to enforce them. Issues such as this are best left to be debated in the public square of the localities and states. The remedies are simple; elections, recalls or voting with your feet.

You can have a Constitutional Republic or you can have oligarchy. One leads to freedom, the other to fascism.

And this judge will be overturned. His holding and justification for same is inept. jwalsh, you may not agree with the SCOTUS rulings but Anguish and Narby did provide you with the judicial realities of the situation.

654 posted on 01/23/2005 4:51:52 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: Junior
You know what creationist sites do to scientific quotes (I know you do, because you've been on these threads forever). If they are that dishonest with quotes, what gives me any hope they'd treat articles any differently? By their fruits you will know them.

Do like I do and no one will get hurt. Consider only the raw scientific data and spit out the bones of interpretation. We all have fully functioning brains.

655 posted on 01/23/2005 4:52:46 PM PST by bondserv (Sincerity with God is the most powerful instigator for change! † [Check out my profile page])
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To: bondserv

Post a link to the original article. Once it goes through the filter of a creationist site, the result is the exact opposite of what was originally published. Like I said, I've seen what creationist sites do with quotes, why should I trust them with articles?


656 posted on 01/23/2005 4:56:13 PM PST by Junior (FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC)
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To: Southack

Recessive traits come to the fore in sexually-reproducing critters. Bacteria ain't them.


657 posted on 01/23/2005 5:00:28 PM PST by Junior (FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC)
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To: iconoclast
Don't patronize me, especially with respectable examples that are about 1000 intellectual miles from Darwinism.

What are you talking about miles from darwinism? The entire link is about evolution, and why it is scientific, just like any other theory. I was responding to your statement, that evolution does NOT constitute a theory. Well, apparently it does, at least according to the people who's say actaully matters on the subject, the scientific community.

Are Margaret Meade and Alfred Kinsey are in your pantheon of "scientists" too?

I don't know/care who they are, I'm not going to go look them up for your off-the-cuff statement. What do you mean 'pantheon?' Don't start with the "evolution is a religion" thing. If evolution were falsisfied tomorrow, or a new, better theory replaced it, I would go along, I have no personal interest in evolution, why would I? So it's hardly a religion if I'd abandon it tomorrow in light of scientific evidence!

I trust what the scientific community says on matters of science, based on what is in the scientific literature, which is a product of peer review and publication. That means the minimum amount of personal bias possible in the data. The next best thing to sciecne is guessing.
658 posted on 01/23/2005 5:01:07 PM PST by Alacarte (There is no knowledge that is not power)
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To: Southack
And all this time I was under the impression that some genetic traits were recessive. That whole "you'll be bald if your maternal uncle was bald" thing must be out of date...

The dominant-recessive thing? That's for sexual species with specific X and Y sex chromosomes.

Bacteria typically have one ring-shaped chromosome, one strand of DNA, one copy of any gene at a given locus, and damn little "junk" to slow down reproduction. Hello? They reproduce asexually without any recombination of mama and papa genes.

People have been trying to tell you for years now that your dumb-butt strawman models are biologically misinformed. If you had any integrity, you would admit that now.

But if you had any integrity, you wouldn't be Southack.

659 posted on 01/23/2005 5:03:38 PM PST by VadeRetro
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To: Junior

Was I too subtle?


660 posted on 01/23/2005 5:04:07 PM PST by js1138
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