A Bloody Crime in New Jersey Divides Egyptians Once Again (Copts: "Wake up America!")

nytimes.com ^ | January 21, 2005 | ANDREA ELLIOTT

[mrsmith]

Well bless you!

Hmmm. Maybe I should lighten up a little.

[jusduat]

I think that the 'good Muslims' only want to enslave
infidels. They are the superior, moral and natural
leaders of the world, doncha know. The radical killers
are their family members and must be protected from
us dirty infidels.

[appalachian_dweller]

No biggie. We all get a terse from time to time.

It's very easy to fall into that trap. It takes a conscious effort to avoid it and I'm not always successful myself.

I'm white. My best friend (we've been friends since we were 16 - I'm 39 now) is black. My father was prejudiced against black folks and didn't like my friend until one day my friend offered to help us move and wouldn't take any money when offered. Earned my fathers respect.

I think muslims need to do the same. They need to stand up and speak out against this butchery and terrorism. Repeat is earned, not given. The vast majority of muslims have not earned that respect. When I read reports of folks being killed by muslims for not following islam they earn nothing but my hatred.

Would like to talk more, but work calls.

[TFine80]

Yeah, they speak Coptic... Right. This language is mostly spoken in the liturgy.

Have you ever met a Copt?

[TFine80]

How can I be half-Jewish?

By virtue of the fact that there is no other word for it.

Check out this book:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0375503854/qid=1106326140/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/104-2825091-3680719?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

[Destro]

Yes - Copts are not Arabs. Just like the Irish are not English. Why are you having a problem with this?

[Aquinasfan]

Wake-up-America! bump.

Where's the MSM on this? < /rhetorical question>

[Aquinasfan]

The culture and shared modern history are the same.

Except that currently, Copts live as second-class citizens in Egypt. Prior to that the Copts were converted by Mohammedans at the point of a sword, or slaughtered.

[Aquinasfan]

Arabs are a great people

The ones that aren't followers of Mohammed.

[jpsb]

Copts, even by your broad defeinition are not Arabs

In 700 AD, all of Egypt was pretty much Christan, Egypt had been Hellized by the Greeks (300-40 BC, Cleopatra was a Greek) and then Romanized by the Romans (40 BC-700 AD). The romanized Egyptans were not Arabs, the Copts are what remains of the pre Arab Egyptan people. Or the old Romanized peoples of Egypt, they are not Arabs.

[Destro]

Yup

[jpsb]

"Arabs are a great people"

Ok a people do great things. They build wonders, they form great civilizations, they make great advances in science, arts, law, etc. So please tell me of the great things the Arabs have done.

[jpsb]

Ok a people do great things meant

Ok a great people do great things

[TFine80]

This is semantic.

Their culture is basically the same as the rest of Egypt and they speak Arabic. Yes, they have been discriminated against. But, functionally, and perhaps especially in the US, they have to get along with Muslims. I don't see how we can condemn them for that. You want them to isolate themselves from all contact with Muslims?

[TFine80]

I dispute that the only value of someone's cultural worth is whether their civilization has advanced global culture. What about primitive tribes or Native Indians? Are these people worthless?

Plus, I could reengage this debate about the cultural advances of the Ottoman Empire and previous advances in medicine, mathematics, and retention of classical learning, but there's little point.

[jpsb]

It appears that they were getting along fine with the Muslims until the Muslims started killing them just like the Muslims have been doing in Egypt for 1500 years. I doubt the Copts are looking forward to once again being persecuted by Muslims only this time here in the USA. At least that appears to be the thinking so far, I am waiting on the police to determine the exact cause of the murders. Too soon, I think, to point a finger at the Muslims, but I can't really blame anyone for thinking that "the old ways" have followed the Copts to their new home.

[TexasCowboy]

"How can I be half-Jewish?

By virtue of the fact that there is no other word for it."

Humm......I wonder if there is another word for half-Christian?

[Destro]

Copts are not Arabs. It is up top them to do associate with whom they please.

[Alouette]

the cultural advances of the Ottoman Empire and previous advances in medicine, mathematics, and retention of classical learning, but there's little point.

Especially considering that it all came to a grinding halt sometime during the 12th century. It's just been one long backward slide for 900 years.

[TFine80]

Well, if Christians were a small, exclusive group with a unique and tragic cultural history in Eastern Europe, I imagine a term would exist as well.