Posted on 01/20/2005 7:33:30 AM PST by SmithL
Guam has been home to a tender and port-of-repair for nuclear subs for decades. Been there, done that - several times. Spent many hours there putting pennies in the slot machines, drinking beer and playing kamikasee in a rental sailboat. The only hassle was getting across the tender to the pier - something about them wanting us to have clean uniforms and regulation haircuts inorder to step aboard their ship!
Kennedy had the courage to go to PT Boat duty, which was very hazardous. His older brother, Joe, whom his father originally planned to make President was killed in the line of duty. I respect their courage and commitment to this country. However, hitting something (or being hit by something) in a naval vessel is a major league fubar, and with the exception of JFK, I've never heard of a commander being cleared without reprimand, much less being honored for the event, other than Kennedy.
Because Roman Catholics went Gaw-Gaw over JFK and some women ... and democrat Roman Catholics worshipped him.. over the years however its been learned that JFK was a POOPE.. ask any Cubans that partipated in the Bay of Pigs.. JFK was also a coward.. Kruschev had his 20.. and pegged him correctly.. an empty suit..
German Not?
I was going to say cr@& but I see you are a Chaplin. While in the service I saw a Pershing dropped on a POV - VW. Radios (mounted in 2 1/2 ton trucks) "misplaced", side arms missing, and trucks lost. I NEVER saw an Battery or Battalion Commander replaced. A senior NCO or a platoon leader, but never the OIC.
BTW - God Bless you Sir.
If the investigation reveals the captain did everything by the book and made no identifiable mistakes, his career will recover. But I'll bet there is some obscure general directive somewhere that commanders are supposed to be aware that some areas are less well-charted than others and appropriate additional caution ought to be exercised in such areas; if there is, AND if the mountain could have been avoided had the sub been traveling at a lower speed, then he is toast.
Freepers with sub duty experience, help me out here: if there is an uncharted undersea mountain in the sub's path, and active sonar is not on, how would the sub be expected to avoid the obstacle? If there is no way, that means that subs must always turn their sonar on when they are traveling a path that no other sub or mapping ship has ever taken; but is there a database that allows them to know that no other sub or mapping ship has ever taken that path?
Here's a click-albe hotlink and a ping to everyone else: http://www.navytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-609556.php
The Navy isn't in the chart business, DMA is.
Agreed. I've always thought that a significant part of the hatred for W is the fact that the media liberals and northeasterners have desperately wanted the Kennedys to be the "American Royal Family." Joe got killed in WWII, John got killed in his first administration, Robert was killed during the primaries, Ted killed a girl and has spent the rest of his life acting like a man trying to drown himself out of the memory of the fact, JFK Jr., who by all accounts was a likeable enough guy, but not particularly talented, died in an airplane crash of his own doing, and there are various other scandals, including rapes, sex with babysitters, drugs, etc. Meanwhile, Bush I served as President, W, two term President, and Jeb just has to say, "okay" to be the 08 nominee.
As a former draft lottery number 315, never having served in the Military, I knew he would be relieved.
;)
Common sense, and SOP.
I was on a destroyer, and we were doing an anti-submarine exercise between Hawaii and the west coast. We waited for three days for that sub to show up, and it never did. Our Captain was pissed! He complained up the chain of command about us wasting three days waiting for a sub that never showed.
In response, the Captain of the sub sent our captain a very nice picture of our ship, taken through the periscope, with our Captain clearly visible on the bridge wing. :-)
In all my time on that tin can, the only ship that our sonar ever found was the Kittyhawk.
I suspect the sub may have been on a classified op ("tracking" the new ChiCom subs?). Our boats are too sophisticated to not "see" a mountain unless they are playing hide and seek at 30 knots with something.
Re: #31, #67, #75, #83 (and any I missed)
#75 got it right. A ship can "carry" boats.
Just call the Captain of a destroyer a "boat driver" and you'll find out in short order.....
That I doubt. As I understand it, run aground and there are no more promotions. But I'm not the cum laude expert on these things.
That's the only thing I can think of for which he may possibly be faulted. And that obviously depends on the fleet SOP's, including the speeds at which they are supposed to travel under those conditions, etc. If there was something saying to exercise appropriate caution when moving in waters known to have uncharted obstacles, then I can see blaiming him. But if Fleet SOP was to travel at that speed, or he had orders or a route that required it, I can't see it as being his fault.
In terms of accountability in the other services, I recall an incident in Korea in 1986 where an idiot Marine riding shotgun in an ammo truck shot at and killed a Korean because he mistakenly thought he was armed only with blanks. The CO was canned, and they also canned the gunny who had not even deployed with them due to Korea because he was in the hospital. The rationale was that he was the guy responsible for unit discipline, and so was at least partically responsible for the screw-up even though he wasn't in country at the time.
Was he relieved or reassigned? To me, as an Army Puke, there is a difference.
Reminds me of the time we were playing war games with a carrier group. Sub was restricted to a 3-D box that didn't even allow us to "go deep" to hide. We shot a flare over the carrier deck. Copters pinging like mad as we went under the carrier and escaped undetected.
Precisely my point.
15 years ago we'd never map the whole human genome. That required a paradigm shift.
So will mapping the entire sea floor.
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