[don-o]

The differences between the most diverse of 1860 Americans, say New Englanders and South Carolinians, pale before the differences between Americans and Europeans.

Interesting. How do you come to that conclusion? The Southern Agrarians (I'll Take My Stand) saw it much differently.

I think the Industrialiasm in the North vs the Agriculture in the South, and all the ramifications of that, needs consideration.

Consider that as much time had passed between Plymouth Rock/Jamestown until 1860 as has elapsed from 1860 to now (roughly.)

I agree with the Agrarians that two separate nations (look up the definition) were sharing the continent and the Union in 1860.

One must get the big picture on this. What happened is what happened. Whether it was for good or not is why we keep talking about it.

[chemainus]

The South was the most highly educated part of the United States before the War of Northern Aggression. The "dumb cracker" motif was because the damned Yankees burned the Libraries and Courthouses by standing order and stole all the land and property from the women and children who were still alive. The kids slaved at 9 years old in the mills created by carpetbaggers just to survive. The Yankee occupiers installed black, green velvet dressed stooges who occupied the Governors mansions, while the South was used for cheap white labor under an occupying force, military then economic and Northern influx; while all profits were funnelled North for the next hundred years leaving the South destitute. Not a single man over 10 in my entire family survived the War. Their considerable property was then given to stooges and carpetbaggers.... enough ... someday the truth will out

[Colonel Kangaroo]

Interesting. How do you come to that conclusion? The Southern Agrarians (I'll Take My Stand) saw it much differently. I think the Industrialiasm in the North vs the Agriculture in the South, and all the ramifications of that, needs consideration. Consider that as much time had passed between Plymouth Rock/Jamestown until 1860 as has elapsed from 1860 to now (roughly.) I agree with the Agrarians that two separate nations (look up the definition) were sharing the continent and the Union in 1860. One must get the big picture on this. What happened is what happened. Whether it was for good or not is why we keep talking about it.

Take away slavery and the South and the western Union states were one vast agricultural region. Of course, take away slavery and you have no secession or Civil War to begin with. The US Constitution never assumed a totally homogeneous population in the first place. But founders like George Washington believed that union among diverse regions was vital to prevent the American states from becoming pawns in European power struggles. Whatever fears the Southern power structure had from the election of President Lincoln could easily be countered by the system provided by the Constitution. Instead they tried to destroy the Union and the continental strength which deterred outside interference. Not only that, but they wished to be the first to use Europeans against their fellow Americans which would have started a doleful pattern that would have reduced our nation to perpetual victimhood.

And talking about diverse nations, I'd say the Confederate cannon fodder small farmers had much more in common with the Union soldier farmers they were fighting against than the slave owning oligarchy whose economic interests they were protecting. Thus the presence of a significant Unionist element in the South who feared a tyranny from a central government in Richmond more than they feared any tyranny that could come from a central government in Washington.