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America Remembers Robert E. Lee
NewsMax ^ | 1/19/05 | Calvin E. Johnson Jr.

Posted on 01/18/2005 5:57:53 PM PST by wagglebee

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To: groanup

LOL...not a very difficult prediction to make, eh?


201 posted on 01/19/2005 12:16:24 PM PST by Gondring (They can have my Bill of Rights when they pry it from my cold, dead hands!)
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To: Gondring
...not a very difficult prediction to make, eh?

No. And your last post re: Stonewall Jackson has already begun the cut and paste brigade's search for bad things written or said about the man.

202 posted on 01/19/2005 12:20:59 PM PST by groanup (http://www.fairtax.org)
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To: Renfield
We can spend billions of tax dollars to support social parasites, but nothing to restore the home of a man who stands as a pillar of American history treason.

There, fixed it.

203 posted on 01/19/2005 12:22:20 PM PST by Modernman (What is moral is what you feel good after. - Ernest Hemingway)
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To: GregGinn

Another thing that bothers me is that every slave came in on Northern ships. They made their profits off slavery, but seemed to rather selfishly not understand the cost to the South that abolition would have meant. Surely the shipping concerns that made so much on the slave trade should have contributed to relieve that burden.

Forebears of mine volunteered to wear the blue, and some never returned, others received gifts of Southern lead and/or Southern hospitality. Graves of my family lie in a churchyard with a historical marker that highlights the strong abolitionist fervor of the church. If there are ever reparations, I sure hope I get my chunk for all my non-slaveholding, non-slave importing, sacrificing ancestors did! :-)

I often ponder whether they would have wanted the Lincoln bureaucratic behemoth, though, and I somehow doubt it.


204 posted on 01/19/2005 12:26:08 PM PST by Gondring (They can have my Bill of Rights when they pry it from my cold, dead hands!)
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To: Gondring
I've seen a few citations of such incidents, and it wasn't clear to me in all of them that the sentries were right at the Jackson grave itself, or at VMI in general, or what--but the implication was that they wanted to prevent any celebration of this hero via embellishment of his grave. I'm not sure if there was a single incident of the one black boy's decoration, or if it happened more than once.

I think that's one of the lost cause myths.

And of course, blacks loved Stonewall because he ran a "colored Sunday school," where he taught "Negroes" how to read and how to achieve salvation.

Jackson didn't run the school, it was sponsored by the Presbyterian Church he was a member of. Black Sunday schools were common throughout the south, Jackson wasn't unique in teaching in one. The schools taught scripture, not reading, and were for both free blacks and slaves. Some of the slaves attending belonged to Jackson himself.

205 posted on 01/19/2005 12:28:25 PM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: Modernman

He wasn't treasonous at all. He was very loyal to Virginia, his home State that had been united with others. Recall that when Virginia (and New York) ratified the Constitution, they did so with the explicit mention that it was only with the understanding that secession would be allowed. Lincoln changed the rules, not Lee.

Besides, there was nary a word when New England states had considered secession a few decades previously. Why were those gatherings not broken up as "seditious" or something?


206 posted on 01/19/2005 12:29:27 PM PST by Gondring (They can have my Bill of Rights when they pry it from my cold, dead hands!)
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To: Gondring
He wasn't treasonous at all. He was very loyal to Virginia, his home State that had been united with others.

So, as long as a person remains loyal to their home state, they can commit whatever treason they want against the United States? Interesting.

Besides, there was nary a word when New England states had considered secession a few decades previously. Why were those gatherings not broken up as "seditious" or something?

Because, AFAIK, they did not organize an army and attempt to secede from the Union.

207 posted on 01/19/2005 12:31:58 PM PST by Modernman (What is moral is what you feel good after. - Ernest Hemingway)
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To: don-o
Although he saved the nation

Just a minor detail that, I reckon.

208 posted on 01/19/2005 12:32:48 PM PST by NJ Neocon (Democracy is tyranny of the masses. It is three wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner)
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To: stainlessbanner
It is well known Grant was intimidated by General Lee.

Respect, not intimidation. No one intimidated Grant. This does not mean Grant did not take into account his opponents abilities.

209 posted on 01/19/2005 12:34:42 PM PST by NJ Neocon (Democracy is tyranny of the masses. It is three wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner)
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To: wagglebee
Ahhh the lost cause Myth raises it's ugly head.

Lee was a courteous man. Shame you have not learned anything from your hero.

210 posted on 01/19/2005 12:37:06 PM PST by NJ Neocon (Democracy is tyranny of the masses. It is three wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner)
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To: Non-Sequitur

He taught a class, and yes it was sponsored by the church. (But if you know so much about this, surely you recall that Jackson sent funds himself from the field back to Lexington for the school.)

So what if black sunday schools were common throughout the South? Why would that diminish the fact that it was a very different situation from what is often portrayed in Northern grade schools today? It only illustrates my point more.

And yes, it was for both free and slaves...again, even slaves were taught (which conflicts with what was taught to me in grade school). And the sources I have seen have pretty clearly indicated that reading WAS taught...else no mention would be made of him violating laws against teaching blacks to read! Where are you getting your claim?


211 posted on 01/19/2005 12:38:14 PM PST by Gondring (They can have my Bill of Rights when they pry it from my cold, dead hands!)
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To: Frumious Bandersnatch
I think that Lee was one of the three best men to be forged in the fires of the Civil War. The other two are Grant and Lincoln. Without these three, the late great unpleasantness may not have ended on such an optimistic note.

Truth.

212 posted on 01/19/2005 12:38:32 PM PST by NJ Neocon (Democracy is tyranny of the masses. It is three wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner)
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To: NJ Neocon

My comment was to the well recognized fact that Lincoln trashed the Constitution.


213 posted on 01/19/2005 12:41:50 PM PST by don-o (Stop Freeploading. Do the right thing and become a Monthly Donor.)
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To: don-o; Don Simmons

Will you accord the same honor to President Grant, General Grant?


214 posted on 01/19/2005 12:44:39 PM PST by NJ Neocon (Democracy is tyranny of the masses. It is three wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner)
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To: Modernman

Uh, he resigned his commission, and Virginia seceded...there was no way he could have committed treason against the United States when they weren't a part of it.

You need to look at the historical perspective and see that before the South was invaded and subdued, there were states that were united...thus, united states. The individuality of the states was quite clear, as Robert E. Lee felt loyalty to Virginia, not to some "Confederacy" when he resigned his US commission. Recall that the confederacy formed after states had seceded.

New England states considered secession and raising an army. Again, why was the discussion of that, and the voting on it, not seditious?


215 posted on 01/19/2005 12:46:36 PM PST by Gondring (They can have my Bill of Rights when they pry it from my cold, dead hands!)
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To: Gondring
Byron Farwell wrote an excellent biography on Jackson published in 1992. We know that reading was not taught during the class because Jackson, being a methodical man, taught the class from a syllabus that he designed and a copy of which survived, and reading was not on the agenda. The class itself did come under criticism from some local residents who threatened to go to the authorities and file charges. Those charges were for illegal assembly - it was illegal for slaves to assemple or be assembled - and not for teaching slaves to read.
216 posted on 01/19/2005 12:46:44 PM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: don-o
My comment was to the well recognized fact that Lincoln trashed the Constitution.

How?

217 posted on 01/19/2005 12:47:39 PM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: don-o

I understand. Mine was to the well recognized fact that he saved the United States of America.


218 posted on 01/19/2005 12:49:44 PM PST by NJ Neocon (Democracy is tyranny of the masses. It is three wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner)
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To: Non-Sequitur

Oh he was pretty rough on it Non-S. But he needed to be, FDR was as well. I have no doubts that W would be if he needed to.


219 posted on 01/19/2005 12:51:01 PM PST by NJ Neocon (Democracy is tyranny of the masses. It is three wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner)
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To: Gondring
Uh, he resigned his commission, and Virginia seceded...there was no way he could have committed treason against the United States when they weren't a part of it.

Only if you accept the southern acts of unilateral secession to be legal.

New England states considered secession and raising an army. Again, why was the discussion of that, and the voting on it, not seditious?

The Sedition Acts had been ruled unconstitutional some time before so merely talking about rebellion wasn't illegal. Too, the Hartford Convention never seriously debated secession. Those attending advocating the breakup of the Union were voted down early. If you read the declaration issued by the convention you would find that nowhere does it threaten secession.

220 posted on 01/19/2005 12:51:07 PM PST by Non-Sequitur
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