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1 posted on 01/18/2005 10:42:36 AM PST by NYer
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To: american colleen; Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; ...
Catholic Ping - please freepmail me if you want on/off this list


2 posted on 01/18/2005 10:43:38 AM PST by NYer ("In good times we enjoy faith, in bad times we exercise faith." ... Mother Angelica)
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To: sionnsar; All
FYI Ping!

CJ DeStefano is an artist and art educator from New York. He has been in the education system for 15 years and has been married to artist Marie DeStefano for 11 years. A self-described ultraist, he has written to countless organizations, politicians, and celebrities in an unwavering attempt to alter what he sees as a narrow and self-aggrandizing world view.

3 posted on 01/18/2005 10:44:58 AM PST by NYer ("In good times we enjoy faith, in bad times we exercise faith." ... Mother Angelica)
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To: NYer

I belive that S. John the Divine is also the place where they have a 'Christa', that is a depiction of the cruficixion with Our Lord as a woman.


5 posted on 01/18/2005 10:49:52 AM PST by tjwmason ("For he himself has said it, And it's greatly to his credit, That he is an Englishman!")
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To: sionnsar; MarMema; Agrarian

Ping


8 posted on 01/18/2005 11:16:51 AM PST by Kolokotronis (Nuke the Cube!)
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To: Siobhan; Canticle_of_Deborah; broadsword; NYer; Salvation; sandyeggo; american colleen; ...
"Sacrifice yourselves for sinners, and say many times, especially whenever you make some sacrifice: O Jesus, it is for love of You, for the conversion of sinners, and in reparation for the sins committed against the Immaculate Heart of Mary."

-The Blessed Virgin Mary at Fatima, 13 July 1917

9 posted on 01/18/2005 11:18:13 AM PST by Pyro7480 ("All my own perception of beauty both in majesty and simplicity is founded upon Our Lady." - Tolkien)
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To: NYer
"How does the Episcopal Church expect its own members or others to have a semblance of respect, when it provides a forum for those that make profane use of our symbols?"

What do you expect when you have non-Christians in charge of your church?

I look for the Episcopal Church to start ordaining moslem imams into their clergy in the not-too-distant future.

Ecumenism, tolerance, and open-mindedness, you know.

12 posted on 01/18/2005 11:28:13 AM PST by nightdriver
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To: NYer

The Episcopal Church - at least those directing it - is no longer a traditional Christian Church in the sense that Episcopalians and Christians of the past would recognize it. The same may be said of the United Methodists and Presbyterians.

St. John the Divine has a long history of abberrant and bizaar behavior. They have a "Blesing of the Animals" ritual which includes Elephants and other strange beasts and a Winter Festival which is little short of neo-pagan.

If mainstream Christianity is not capapble of resurrecting its traditional moral base and jettisoning such odd and deviant beliefs such as oppositon to moral warfare, the right of the people to self-defense, the right of society to permanently rid itself of serial murderers, etc, the west will collapse like a ripe plum before the onslaught of militant Islam.


17 posted on 01/18/2005 11:35:43 AM PST by ZULU (Fear the government which fears your guns. God, guts, and guns made America great.)
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To: NYer

A "Charch of England" apostasy BTTT.


18 posted on 01/18/2005 11:44:03 AM PST by Cultural Jihad
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To: NYer

Re: "...many of us were sickened at the selection of works permitted to be displayed inside this holy place."

That was her first mistake, her class was in an Episcopalian Church, nothing holy about it.

As a recovering Episcopalian I can tell you the ECUSA is not even remotely Christian let alone holy.


19 posted on 01/18/2005 11:55:27 AM PST by Mark in the Old South (Note to GOP "Deliver or perish" Re: Specter I guess the GOP "chooses" to perish)
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To: NYer

What else can we expect from St. John the Divine? If I recall correctly, they hosted a production of "Hair" (which featured full body nudity) in the hippie heydays.<P.
Incidentally, it's a magnificent structure. I visited as part of a Gray Line Tour.


27 posted on 01/18/2005 12:25:49 PM PST by Ciexyz (I use the term Blue Cities, not Blue States. PA is red except for Philly, Pgh & Erie)
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To: NYer
Note well: as with the recent "Word to the Church," Mr. Sisk is sorry that people were offended, but not particularly sorry that he allowed the offensive "art" to be posted in the first place.

Arrogance is bliss, apparently.

32 posted on 01/18/2005 12:51:04 PM PST by r9etb
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To: NYer

Why should anyone be surprised at what happens at Satan's Shrine, formerly known as the Cathedral of St. John the Divine? If one is going to take students there for edification, one should ALWAYS visit first to be sure some heinous exhibit is not in place. Remember Christa? This place went off the deep end long, long, long ago.


39 posted on 01/19/2005 6:23:39 AM PST by WashingtonSource (Freedom is not free.)
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To: NYer
I am an art teacher and one who is vehemently opposed to censorship of any kind. Radical art, the kind that forces you to think will always exist, and should. Great artists do not seek to imitate what has triumphed before, or to produce what is acceptable, but instead almost by definition inhabit the political, moral and legal fringes of society. I am also familiar with artistic controversy for the sole sake of controversy. Bringing shock value into one's art does not intrinsically incorporate artistic integrity or a decipherable message.

This person has undermined his own argument. Art was never about being radical until the French Revolution. "Epater la bougeousie" has been the dominant motif for the last few centuries except that it gets harder and harder to shock a jaded and decadent middle class.

Art is meant to reflect a cultures highest ideals and spiritual values. When it strays from this it becomes degenerate, it may have some aesthetic value, but quite frankly, if it contains a didactic socio-political content designed to be "provocative" or "create awareness" it has sunk to the level of propaganda. If it shows nudity it is ipso facto porneia. Nobody wants to say this, though, because it's too narrow-minded and backward.

40 posted on 01/20/2005 9:19:25 PM PST by TradicalRC (I'd rather live in a Christian theocracy than a secular democracy.)
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