To: ValenB4
Unfortunately, the system YOU advocate has politicized the school system in America. If evolutionary theory wasn't being crammed down the throats of students who don't want to hear it, and if parents had a voice over what was being taught concerning evolutionary theory we wouldn't be in this mess. YOU evidently favor teachers having more power than parents. Sorry, the control over what a child hears ultimately resides with the parents, not the schools or the teachers. You are the one who evidently insists in students hearing what you want them to hear a one sided view on evolution. Sorry that isn't what America is all about. America is about fairness, and putting that fairness into law. That isn't fundamentalism. That's Freedom. The Bill Of Rights codify Americans rights into law. And parents and students have no right to an alternative view concerning evolution right now in the public school system, and that is totally against what America is all about. You apparently are anti American yet try to brand me as the one who is authoritarian.
Don't call me something I am not. I am not a state worshiper. You evidently want students to hear the side of evolutionary theory that you want them to hear. You evidently don't care how the parents feel who don't want a one-sided approach to evolutionary theory, or don't want it taught at all to their children. I do care about how they feel. You evidently don't or you would have taken their feelings into consideration. How did you come about being this way?
You want what you want. That is clear. You want a one-sided approach.
Many parents don't want their students to have to sit and listen to evolutionary theory being taught as if it is more than a theory. No student should have to go through that, and that is the essence of Laissez-Faire. Freedom. The freedom to hear more than one side being crammed down one throat.
Please, don't make statements about me that are unfounded. Statements like I approve of the use of violence and threatened violence. That is a lie.
What is wrong with reading a statement that evolutiinoaryt theory is an unproven theory? Tell me, what is wrong with that. I would like an answer rather than accusations from you, ok?
You say that it is communism to make teachers read a statement that they don't believe in? Funny how you say nothing about how students feel, or how parents feel.
You talk about forcing a teacher to read something they do not believe in. What about a child being forced to hear what they don't want to hear? What about parent s being forced into their children having to hear what they don't want them to hear. You care more for the teachers than the pupils or parents. We can see who you care about and put first.
Look, the students and the parents come first not the teachers.
Answer me, what is more important. Having the freedom to hear both sides, or having a crammed-down-your-throat, one sided approach? We have passed laws to guarantee freedom before. The U.S. Constitution is a gigantic example of that.
We can also pass a law that guarantees freedom to hear more than just one side o the topic of evolutionary theory.
So, what do you favor, the law-backed freedom to hear more than one side, or the teacher-pushed, 'who cares what the students and parents want' approach that you evidently espouse.
Yes, I do believe in freedom. I am Laissez-Faire(especially when it comes to capitalism), am I not? I believe in the freedom to hear more than one side when it comes to evolution. You obviously don't believe in freedom. I want a system that guarantees that students don't have a one sided approach of evolution crammed down their throat. And that guarantee is brought about by law. A law that will put the parents and students rights first. Do you believe in students and parents rights being first over teachers and scientists? I don't believe you do. You apparently only care about how the teachers and scientists feel.
Students have a right to a biology class, and one where evolution isn't being crammed down their throats. One where they can hear both sides.Evidently you want a classroom where there is no disclaimer about evolution being an unproven theory. Do you want children to think that evolution is a fact, and not just mere theory?
You say that there is no demand on the part of teachers and scientists to teach anything else. There you go again, leaving students and parents out of the equation. You must learn that students and parents come before teachers and scientists in the schools. That is the way it works. But all you seem to care about is how teachers and scientists feel, and that is really sad.
To: Laissez-faire capitalist
Hate to say this, but all your talk about "feeeelings" and "for the children" and "the right to be heard" and "the right not to be offended" and the "the right not to hear what you don't want to hear" and even your tortured use of "putting fairness into law" kind of reeks of liberal, multi-cultural pap.
It's all very sensitive, very Oprah, but science is ultimately unconcerned with the "feeeelings" of those who don't want to hear that 2+2=4.
531 posted on
01/20/2005 10:46:30 AM PST by
atlaw
To: Laissez-faire capitalist
America is not about "fairness". The parents are out of line on insisting that science curriculum be changed. Dedication to the pursuit of truth is more important than feelings being hurt.
What is this "cramming down people's throats"? How can one cram down someone's throat the only the accepted theory in the biological sciences? There is no other theory and there is no evidence for such a theory that can be used to explain the complexity of life. From a scientific point of view, there is no "other side" to hear. This isn't a debating club. Science isn't a democracy. That is not the fault of teachers or scientists. If ID is to be taught, it should be done in a philosophy class. Philosophy is a subject that deals with "other sides of an issue" and morality, ethics, the meaning of life, and the issues of existance.
If you wish to enter a field of study, it is up to the person entering the field to adapt to those already in that field. Not the other way around. But you advocate forcing teachers and scientists to teach something they do not believe in. What presumptive arrogance to demand that the experts in a field accomodate you and your feelings! You do NOT have that right. You do not have the right to avoid having your feelings hurt. Either transfer to another school or don't take the class. Getting the government to force the change you want to make makes you a state worshipper. And your advocacy of "fairness" makes me question your laissez-faire label. You sound like a socialist when you sprout such leftist egalitarian nonsense. Don't be upset with my claim about violence. For all government action is inherently based on violence and the threat of violence. When you involve the coercive power of the state, you are threatening violence.
You do not have a "right" to have a biology course that does not include the theory of evolution. You do not have a "right" to enforce "fairness" upon a field and to force the experts in a field to say something they do not wish to say. But you do have the right to form your own school that teaches biology without evolutionary theory. If you can find the teachers to work there and the students willing to attend based upon the voluntary principles of a free market, a laissez-faire market, that would be fine and would be consistent with moral principles. You create ill will from scientists and teachers because of the threat of force. Forming your own school would create no such ill will.
533 posted on
01/20/2005 11:05:56 AM PST by
ValenB4
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