Benny Hinn’s Bangalore congregation kicks up a fuss

Religion News ^ | January 17th, 2005

[missyme]

This is not a debate on religions I am just quoting to you verbatem what Jesus said not what I said.

Hindus have done Christian persecution as you will see many links providing you that info on this thread.

I am not condemning your for your belief in Hindusim but if you say you beleive in Jesus then you have a responsibility of knowing what he said and what he did not say.

[PleaseNoMore]

"The Bible warns us clearly that we must not attack men of God no matter how sinful they may have become or wicked in our eyes,"

I agree with this statement actually. If you understand the context in which it is being spoken, it is scriptural. Hinn used the word "attack". I am reminded of Michael the archangel who would not rebuke satan because of the annointing that once covered him but, said "the Lord rebuke you". Jude 8:9&10 If the archangel of the Lord would not slander satan then who are we to think that we can say despicable things about someone who may or may not be anointed (set apart for a particular work or service) of the Lord.

Jude 8:[9] But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!" [10] Yet these men speak abusively against whatever they do not understand; and what things they do understand by instinct, like unreasoning animals-these are the very things that destroy them.

As for whether Benny's father was mayor of Jaffa, that can easily be proven or disproven through records. I don't believe I have ever heard him say that, but he may have. I am only aware of the fact that he grew up in Israel.

[Gengis Khan]

"Hindus have done Christian persecution as you will see many links providing you that info on this thread. "

--Yes I have seen those. Christian propagandist sites citing a few examples of random attacks on christians by stray lunatics is hardly worthy of the comment "Hindus have done Christian persecution". Search the internet for Hindu propagandist sites and you will get plenty of "Christian atrocities on Hindus".I live in India and take my words for it ....both these are far from reality.

If you choose to see the larger picture you will find that the majority of Hindus and Christians have lived far more peacefully in India (for centuries) than they have in most other parts of the world.

Its easy to be blinded by a few articles and loose site of the historical fact that (as I have said in my previous post) when Christians and Jews were being purged under Roman Empire, India under Hindu rule gave them shelter.

There is no part of the world where hate crimes have not occured and on whatever pretext. More so in case of countries with a lot of diversity. Even in America hate crimes have been committed on Indians after 9/11 but we dont call it persecution. I never said that attacks on christians donot happen in India but they are committed by a lunatic fring minority and in no way reflect or represent the mood of the majority of the Hindus.

You will find several Indian Christians at FR. Do find out from them what they have to say about Hindus. There opinion would be more reliable then those links you are talking about.

[Gengis Khan]

"I am not condemning your for your belief in Hindusim but if you say you beleive in Jesus then you have a responsibility of knowing what he said and what he did not say."

 

--No debate but I will just tell you a little bit about my religion.

Hinduism is a very different religion from Christianity.  For example there are billions of gods in Hinduism and Christ is just one of them, so is Budda, Krisna and Mohammed and we believe there will be more to come. I do not completely know what most of them say (nobody does) but i am allowed to learn about everyone of them without prejudice and have the freedom to apply my judgement and accept the crux of what any of the gods have to say.

In Hinduism I am allowed to completely believe, partly believe or entirely reject his or her teaching even if he or she happens to be my god. This is because of the fact that Hinduism is founded on logical reasoning. In Hinduism even divine words are open to contrary opinion, thought or argument.

 

With regard to your comment:
"if you say you beleive in Jesus then you have a responsibility of knowing what he said and what he did not say."

 

In Hinduism one can only achieve the status of godhood not by what he/she says but by what he/she does in his/her life. And hence I consider Jesus as god. 

[PresbyRev]

Obviously you lack an understanding of that which constitutes a cult and you clearly know nothing about Masonry or the Shriners.

[PresbyRev]

Obviously you lack an understanding of that which constitutes a cult and you clearly know nothing about Masonry or the Shriners.

[subterfuge]

Oops. Sorry, guess I'm sarcasm impaired.

[subterfuge]

"Your own statement proves that his reputation far exceed his true abilities. "

Can't argue with you there.

[Dataman]

'sallright.

[PresbyRev]

Thanks for posting the article.

I have yet to see any of Hinn's defenders deal with any of the documented fabrications and frauds the man has engaged in.

Hinn's followers here seem to deflect the issue onto secondary matters and delight in dragging around red herrings.

The issue is not Hinduism; the Shriners; etc. Hinn may pass out Bibles and in spite of his heresy, the gospel, or at least elements of it, may be proclaimed. Scripture tells us that the Gospel can be advanced even by those with misguided or evil intentions. It doesn't mean Christians are called upon to support or defend such men.

Has Benny Hinn healed anyone? Where is the proof and independent verification? Hasn't he clearly lied about his 'healing' missions? What does the Bible tell us ought to be done with false prophets or those promoting false gospels? Hasn't he made outlandish claims that run counter to orthodox Christianity?

Evangelicals, Fundamentalist Christians, etc. all seem to take issue with Hinn. Not because Hinn is healing people, but precisely because he isn't. Hinn is making money off this crap and shattering people's hopes in the process of failing to bring healing to very hurting people.

Hinn brings reproach upon the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

In previous posts links to or copies of articles critical of Hinn have been posted from Christianity Today and The Door -- mainstream evangelical opinion rejects Hinn as a fraud and huckster.

Are any of his defenders willing to deal with that objective data or are we going to continue dancing around mulberry bushes on unrelated issues?

[missyme]

So is Hinduism based upon a guessing game of religion?

Does not the Word of GOD have any meaning? (Which is from the Bible) Why do so many Muslims and Hindus hate the Jewish People? Because they were Chosen by GOD to be a light of all nations to the world. Maybe Jealosuy? The TORAH was given to Moses for all of the world not denominations of religion but for all the world.

Hindusim might have some great life principles to live by
but GOD gave us his word and everyone knows what Jesus said because it is written in the GOSPELS we don't have to guess what Jesus said?

There is proof in GOD's word the JEWS have that documented proof. Once Muslims and Hindus realize the importance of Israel and GOD's promise to the Jewish people all religions will be making headway with GOD the one and only that created the world. Jesus Christ will be revealed to the Jews in GOD's own plan and prophectic time peace.

This my friend is not a guess IT is the WORD OF GOD.

[free_life]

o yes I do know they are saved. I know these people well and the bible makes it clear we know our fellow believers.

[sukhoi-30mki]

Err,Im a Indian Christian & I pretty much concur with what GK said about Hindu-Christian ties in India.About Hindus hating Jews-where did you get that from???India is home to the world's oldest Jewish communities outside the Middle East.Infact many Jews proudly say that,apart from the US,it is only in India that they have never been persecuted.Most Indians,irrespective of their religion(though a good chunk of muslims should be excluded from that list) don't mind the religion(s) of their neighbours,as long as they are not poking their nose into each others lives.

& a related fact is that India & Israel are undeclared strategic allies-that wouldn't exactly be possible if Hindus hated Jews,would it??

[missyme]

Thank you for the info, I did not know that.

It is just that the USA is the only country that truly supports Israel, because as Christians we realize the importance of Israel.

[free_life]

Obviously you lack an understanding of that which constitutes a cult and you clearly know nothing about Masonry or the Shriners.

---

Ah now it is clear. If someone does not agree with you and/or your doctrine they are wrong or a heretic or know nothing. You have revealed your heart there rev. I'll take Hinn for all his possible faults over a cultist any day of the week. Hope you find the light, rev.

Still haven't answered the question about whether you lay hands on the sick and see them healed as the Lord Jesus Christ commanded us!

[Sir Gawain]

The Bible says only God can judge a man's heart.

[free_life]

From a Shriners web site -Members of the Ancient Arabic Order Nobles of the Mystic Shrine for North America are members of the Masonic Order and adhere to the principles of Freemasonry -- Brotherly Love, Relief and Truth.
http://ncmason.org/shriners.htm

the Shriners (formally known as The Ancient Arabic Order of the Nobles of the Mystic Shrine) are a religion, a group of 500,000 North American men committed to revering a Supreme Being. To avoid scandalizing outsiders -- and because most Shriners are decent guys who honestly don't think they pose a threat to orthodox faiths -- they play down their religiosity. Still, spiritual overtones ooze from every corner of the Shriners' organization. To become a Shriner, a man must first become a member of the Freemasons, a centuries-old, 10-million member international fraternal order replete with unusual mystical rituals. It's often called "the world's largest secret society." The Shriners were formed in the 1870s by two theatrical New York Freemasons who became entranced with Arabic and Muslim lore.

They developed rites in which God is referred to by many names, including "Allah," "Father" and the "Grand Geometrician." Shriners have traditionally prayed by facing toward Mecca (the most holy city in Islam) and initiation ceremonies include the Bible, altars, holy titles and devotion to "the everlasting foundation of God-given law."

The blood oath of secrecy represents the most contentious display of religion in the Shriners.

the macabre punishment a Shriner agrees to if he ever transgress his obligations to the mystic Shrine: "In willful violation whereof may I incur the fearful penalty of having my eyeballs pierced to the centre with a three-edged blade, my feet flayed, and I be forced to walk the hot sands upon the sterile shores of the Red Sea until the flaming sun shall strike me with livid plague, and may Allah, the god of Arab, Moslem and Mohammedan, the god of our fathers, support me to the entire fulfillment of the same. Amen. Amen. Amen."
Conservative Christian groups, in addition, have often denounced the Freemasons and Shriners as an alternative religion, even though many Shriners are active Protestants.
http://www.freemasonrywatch.org/shriner_spiritual.html

The Shriners
Allah's Islamic Cult Inside the Masonic Lodge

To most Americans, the Shriners are a wonderful organization. They see men wearing the strange "fez" hat and gleefully riding tiny motor scooters in parades. They see Shriners at circuses dressed as clowns, delighting youngsters. They hear of the boisterous Shriners conventions and are told of the charitable acts of this group--its burns hospitals and so forth. But there is a darker side to the Shriners, and Texe Marrs uncovers it in this revealing investigative expose. You'll learn that the Shriners are Knights Templar, 13th degree York Rite Masons or 32nd degree Scottish Rite Masons. You'll discover the hideous blood oath to a pagan deity taken by these men in a bizarre and occultic initiation rite. You'll discover also the meaning of The Shrine and the significance of the "fez" cap. You'll find out why the elements in the logo, or symbol, of the Shriners include an Arabic curved sword, upside down horns, a pentacle star, and an image of the ancient goddess of Egypt. This audiotape will enlighten you about what goes on behind the closed doors of the Shrine Temples. It will equip you with the knowledge and information you need to unmask this devilish organization and help men who are entrapped in its devilish clutches escape.
http://www.texemarrs.com/021998/shriners.htm


Freemasonry: A fraternal order revived in the early 18th century in England, loosely based on associations or guilds of stone cutters (“operative” masons). Freemasonry (“speculative” masons) sought to give philosophical, moral, or spiritual meaning to the lodge, tools, and oaths of the stone cutters. Branches of Freemasonry include the Blue Lodge, York Rite, Scottish Rite, and Shriners. Affiliated organizations include the Order of the Eastern Star (for women), the Order of DeMolay (for boys), and the Order of Rainbow (for girls). Most modern adherents maintain that the organization is not a religion but a club or fraternity promoting high moral values and good works. They believe, therefore, that Freemasonry is compatible with and supplements Christianity and other religions. Critics counter that Freemasonry involves secret blood oaths or curses, and that the writings of respected early leaders (Albert Mackey, Albert Pike, etc.) are replete with occult philosophy and religious doctrine contrary to Christianity. Despite Freemasonry’s promotion and funding of a number of worthwhile, philanthropic endeavors (free Shriner children hospitals, nursing homes, etc.), many Christian individuals and churches have condemned Freemasonry or warned of elements that they believe are contrary to Christianity. These churches include the Presbyterian Church of America, Southern Baptist Convention, Episcopal Church, Christian Reformed Church, Church of the Nazarene, and Lutheran Church (Missouri and Wisconsin Synods).
http://www.watchman.org/cat95.htm

Most Christians understand that the shriners are a cult and those involved need deliverance!

[free_life]

The Bible says only God can judge a man's heart.

---

Yep! And that we will know each other by our fruit-bearing. And that His sheep do hear His voice. And that we gather together. And that Light has no place with darkness. And that Christ lives in us and we become like Him which is either evident or not [ a true believer or not]...etc etc...it is very clear that we can know our fellow believers. My original point was that I know some people who were saved at a Benny Hinn event and I am sure they are really saved just as I sure the Pastors at my church are saved and many other brothers and sisters I know. Christ is not hidden in those who are saved but He is revealed...it is not a difficult thing to see and know, except for the judgmental religious folk..who tend to also flock together and bash everyone else in God's kingdom. It is them who are questionable in whether they are truly saved, for they do not look or sound like Christ...but like the Accuser of the brethren.

[Liberal Classic]

free_life wrote: Hinn I am not sure about but the shriners I am sure about and it is a cult.

I'll take Hinn for all his possible faults over a cultist any day of the week.

As someone with a close family member wrapped up in the Benny Hinn cult, I think you have things backwards.

I've been to more of those Benny Hinn Miracle Circuses that I care to admit. If you want to see the true face of Benny Hinn Ministries, try this some time: go stand outside a venue where Hinn is holding his dog and pony show and carry a sign that reads "False Prohpet." You will see classic cultist behavior. Some people will yell at you. Some people will cuss you. Others will spit on you. Some will writhe on the ground in front of you and others will holler oogah-boogah at you in an attempt to drive the demons from you. When that fails, the Benny Hinn Bouncers will come out to intimidate you from exercising your first amendment rights on a public sidewalk. They will claim you need a permit. They will threaten to call the police. When that doesn't work then they will station some of the "faithful" around you to run interference and keep you from talking with passers-by. They will use intimidation tactics on people who are trying to talk to you. They will yell at them, too. They will call you crazy and dangerous. They will call you of the devil. They will try to prevent you from holding a conversation by yelling in your ear interrupting everything you say. And this is nothing compared to the madness that ensues inside.

The Benny Hinn Circus is a carefully orchestrated excercsise in mass hypnosis. I ask you what kind of "church" subjects its congregation to two to three hours of chanting? The music and choir start of low and soft, "hallelujah" the refrain goes. Imperceptibly slowly, the volume grows over the next couple of hours, punctuated by commands by Hinn to "keep your hands up in the air" and "keep standing." A few hours of this later, the volume is so loud it makes my ears hurt. By this time the crowd is worked into a complete frenzy. People are rolling and shaking all over. When Hinn jumps to the front of the stage to begin "preaching" there is a deafening cheer from the audience, partly out of excitement partly from relief. Hinn opens his bible and throws out a few verses seemingly at random. There's no time to look them up and read along before he throws out the next one. His sermon, if you can call it that, lasts about five minutes. That's right, five minutes of preaching after three hours of chanting, and then he moves on to next segment of the show in which he begins tossing out the names of various maladies and diseases that are spontaneously being healed at that very moment. This goes on for an hour. Cancer is being healed, eyesight is being restored. Some sort of liver ailment has been cured. Hallelujah! The crowd goes wild. Now the staff begins handing out plastic buckets for donations. Hinn begins his pitch at this point, claiming if you want to receive, you must give. Money flows like water. Full buckets are exchanged with empty ones. This goes on for some time until stage hands begin tossing wheelchairs up on to the podium. No one has actually gotten up out of a wheelchair. People who came in using a wheelchair leave by them. The chairs were brought in from an off-stage entrance. Again the crowd goes wild. This is when Benny Hinn asks for volunteers to go up on stage to received his special anointing. Instantly the aisles are floode with people desparate to go up on stage, desparate to "feel" something. That's why people go on stage: to have a supernatural experience. Long before anyone gets to the stage, I can see audience members being vetted by stage handlers. Each one is asked a few questions and sometimes the staff member writes something down on a little piece of paper. Only selected people get to go up on stage. There are plenty of Benny Hinn Bouncers and they only let in few people at a time or the stage would be swamped.

It's usually late on the third day of one of his three day "crusades" when Hinn does his prophesying. He's cleaned up his act for television audiences, but he feels comfortable enough at these events to let his true message come out. Hinn preaches a message of prosperity and health. To received a miraculous healing is as easy as being saved. That's it. As easy as is it to ask Jesus into your heart, it is that easy to be cured of any disease, that easy for any money problem to solved. Truly, Hinn preaches "ask and you shall receive" to its fullest extent. But there's a catch. If you lose your faith, you lose your healing. If you don't receive a miracle healing, come back on the next night. Make another love offering. If it doesn't happen, maybe it is because you have not truly let the Lord into your heart. Miraculous healing is as easy as becoming a Christian, Hinn stresses. The implication is that if you do not receive a healing, then maybe you are not really saved after all. Your salvation may be in doubt. This is the essence of Hinn's teachings: if misfortune befalls you it is because of your lack of faith in the Almighty. Good things happen to believers. Bad things happen to unbelievers. Hinn preaches nothing resembling Judeo-Christanity. Hinn preaches prosperity. Finally, Hinn begins telling of his prophetic visions. A hush falls over the audience, people wait expectantly for news of the future. On tap for 2002 - 2004 was this: Oral Roberts and Jimmy Swaggart were to pass away within close proximity in time of each other. After this was to have happened, a second September 11th was to have occured in the United States; a terrorist attack that would make 911 look like peanuts. After this great calamity was to befall our nation, a new revival was to have taken place. People, Hinn claimed -- no prophsied -- that people would spontaneously be saved and start performing miraculous healings on the street. Just like that.

I ask you, have any of these wild fantasies come to pass? No. Benny Hinn is not just misguided. Not just unorthodox. Hinn is evil. Hinn leads people away from the Lord. If Hinn leads people to the Lord, it is only through rejection of Hinn's teachings. That he calls on Jesus' name every other breath does not make him holy. That he continuously calls on the name of the Lord is no matter. That he makes prophecy in the name of the Lord does not matter. If any of his prophecies are false, Hinn is a false prophet. Any Jew or Christian should understand that. QED.

[LS]

1) I never said India was not making progress. Quite the contrary, the fact that some Americans are concerned about Indian computer programmers taking their jobs indicates a level of technical sophistication.

2) At last glance, Ireland was well ahead of Indian in rate of growth. That doesn't diminish India's growth, but don't overstate it.

3) Fine. If my source was outdated, I stand corrected. But it was a western reporter in India in the late 1990s reporting this.

4) People do not just go where there is money, but where there is opportunity and liberty. Let me know when there is mass immigration into India, even from her far more backward neighbors.