Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Submarine Crash Shows Navy Had Gaps in Mapping System
NY Times ^ | January 15, 2005 | CHRISTOPHER DREW

Posted on 01/14/2005 8:30:19 PM PST by neverdem

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 221-235 next last
To: endthematrix

I wonder what the current Chinese Navy aircraft carrier count is right now. Any changes circa 26Dec04???..inquiring tin-foiled minds want to know.....


21 posted on 01/14/2005 9:08:39 PM PST by Cvengr (<;^))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Doohickey

NY Times assessment; Navy declines answer; Me too! PING!


22 posted on 01/14/2005 9:10:45 PM PST by BIGLOOK (I once opposed keelhauling but have recently come to my senses.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Strategerist; TXnMA
From an earlier thread:

U.S.S. San Francisco preparing to dock at Apra Harbor

posted Jan 10, 2005.

We have this:

*********************************************

To: BigSkyFreeper

I've heard of flying into a mountain -- but not doing so underwater...

The crazy thing about the topography of the ocean floor in that area is that the seamounts of the Caroline Ridge (which the sub supposedly hit) are very near to the Marianas Trench -- the deepest spot on Earth...

My guess is that our undersea topographic mapping in this area is not too good.

3 posted on 01/09/2005 11:43:10 PM PST by TXnMA (Attention, ACLU: There is no constitutionally protected right to NOT be offended -- Shove It!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies | Report Abuse ]

To: TXnMA
Found this, seems to be a very interesting area.

**********************************************************

Introduction


The Yap Trench lies on the southeastern boundary of the Philippine Sea Plate in the western Pacific (Fig. 1). The Yap Trench is one section of a continuous system of arcuate trenches. These include the Izu-Bonin, Mariana, Yap, and Palau trenches, framing the eastern boundary of the Philippine Sea Plate. The Yap Trench is in a complex tectonic region of convergence between the Philippine Sea, the Pacific, and the Caroline plates. The Yap, Palau trenches, and the Ayu Trough, which is located in the southwest of the Palau Trench, form a plate boundary between the Philippine Sea and the Caroline plates. The Yap and Palau trenches are considered to be convergent boundaries, while the Ayu Trough is thought to be a divergent boundary (Weissel and Anderson, 1978; Fujiwara et al., 1995). Models of Philippine Sea Plate motion (Ranken et al., 1984; Seno et al., 1993) indicate that the rotation pole of the Philippine Sea-Caroline plates is at the junction of the Palau Trench and Ayu Trough, near 6°N, 134°E. The rate of relative plate motion is estimated to be 0.7°/m.y., that is, 0-6 mm/yr along the Yap and Palau trenches (Seno et al., 1993). The age of the subducting West Caroline Basin of the Caroline Plate is estimated to be 35°30 Ma (Bracey, 1975; Hegarty and Weissel, 1988; Yamazaki et al., 1994), and the age of the overlying Parece Vela Basin of the Philippine Sea Plate is estimated to be 30°25 Ma (Mrozowski and Hayes, 1979).
Fig.1:
Location map of the Yap Trench. The contour interval is 2,000 m. The box shows the survey area as shown in Fig.3. The distribution of earthquake hypocenters are represented by solid black symbols: Circles = source depth shallower than 50 km, Diamonds = 50-100 km, Crosses = deeper than 100 km. Global hypocentral data from ISC since 1980.
fig.1:
Fig.2:

Bathymetric map of the circumambient regions of the Yap Trench. The contour interval is 500 m. The bathymetric data are based on the global bathymetry of ETOPO5 (NGDC, 1988). The star symbol shows the pole position of Philippine Sea - Caroline plates estimated by Seno et al. (1993). The solid black symbols show hypocentral distribution. See Figure 1 caption.
The length of the Yap Trench is about 700 km (Fig. 2). The trench axis elongates in a convex shape toward the southeast. An arc involving the Yap Island on the Philippine Sea Plate side forms a trench-arc system. This arc consists primarily of metamorphic rocks and lacks active volcanism (Shiraki, 1971; Hawkins and Batiza, 1977). The arc-type rocks found on the islands are no younger than Late Oligocene or Miocene. The distance between the island-arc and the trench axis is about 50 km, which is much less than that of other trench-arc systems. The Caroline Ridge, oriented in an ESE-WNW direction, intersects the trench from the east. This ridge consists of a chain of seamounts thought to be of hotspot origin (Keating et al., 1984) of less than 40 m.y. (Hegarty and Weissel, 1988). Seismicity along the trench is low. Earthquakes occur at a depth of less than 50 km, and no deep-focus earthquakes are apparent along the trench. A Wadati-Benioff zone, demonstrated by a plane of deep-focus earthquakes reflecting dynamic interaction between a subducting and an overriding plates, is thus not defined. Considering the above geological and geophysical features, the Yap Trench is controversial regarding the activity of plate subduction at present. Hawkins and Batiza (1977) and McCabe and Uyeda (1983) suggested that subduction at the Yap Trench may have suspended by collision of the Caroline Ridge. McCabe and Uyeda (1983) suggested that the Caroline Ridge collided with the Yap Trench in early Miocene, and that this collision made the volcanic activity in the Yap Arc stop, and narrowing the distance between arc and trench. In contrast, some petrological and geophysical studies suggested that subduction at the trench may still be active. Fresh volcanic rock fragments and hydrothermally affected rocks, dredged in the back-arc region, may suggest in-situ or nearby hydrothermal activity in relation to Quaternary volcanic activity (Fujioka et al., 1986). High heat flow values were observed in the back-arc region and appreciably large values of negative free-air gravity anomalies were observed along the trench axis (Nagihara et al., 1989). Large negative gravity anomaly is indicative of dynamic force exerted on crust under the trench associated with ongoing subduction of the oceanic lithosphere. Observation of micro-seismic activity in the trench area suggested that tectonic force, found in active subduction zones, acted on the crust of the trench (Sato et al., 1997).
Prior to our study, there were insufficient data for understanding the tectonics and geodynamics of the Yap Trench. We conducted swath bathymetry and gravity surveys of the Yap Trench aboard the R/V Yokosuka in 1993, 1994 and 1996, in combination with dive surveys of the research submersible Shinkai 6500 (Fujioka et al., 1994, 1996). We hope that our study stimulates further geological and geophysical studies in this region, focused on morphotectonic characteristics, by providing a high quality base map, and that it will provide insight into the tectonics of the Yap Trench, the Philippine Sea Plate and the circum-plates.

Diagrams :

here


4 posted on 01/09/2005 11:59:45 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (A Proud member of Free Republic ~~The New Face of the Fourth Estate since 1996.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies | Report Abuse ]

To: All

Bathymetric map of the circumambient regions of the Yap Trench. The contour interval is 500 m. The bathymetric data are based on the global bathymetry of ETOPO5 (NGDC, 1988). The star symbol shows the pole position of Philippine Sea - Caroline plates estimated by Seno et al. (1993). The solid black symbols show hypocentral distribution. See Figure 1 caption.

5 posted on 01/10/2005 12:02:16 AM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (A Proud member of Free Republic ~~The New Face of the Fourth Estate since 1996.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies | Report Abuse ]

To: All; BigSkyFreeper

Survey ship tracks in the region of the Yap Trench. The solid, gray and dashed lines show the tracks from the Y95-06, Y96-12, and Y93-03 cruises of the R/V Yokosuka, respectively. The dotted lines show the tracks of the KH92-1 cruise of the R/V Hakuho-maru. The area surveyed by Iwabuchi et al. (1990) aboard the S/V Takuyo is stippled.

Looks like this survey was concerned aout mapping the deep trench areas..

No interest in the Seamount areas.

6 posted on 01/10/2005 12:06:49 AM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (A Proud member of Free Republic ~~The New Face of the Fourth Estate since 1996.)

23 posted on 01/14/2005 9:10:52 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (A Proud member of Free Republic ~~The New Face of the Fourth Estate since 1996.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: drt1

Not to mention that nasty Communications office in the Chinese Embassay that just happened to always chatter prior and after enemy calls for fire, just happening to be in our errantly mapped location,...damn,..just damn...


24 posted on 01/14/2005 9:12:21 PM PST by Cvengr (<;^))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: HiTech RedNeck; Straight Vermonter; neverdem; NormsRevenge

See post #23.


25 posted on 01/14/2005 9:14:13 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (A Proud member of Free Republic ~~The New Face of the Fourth Estate since 1996.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

hindsight is ALWAYS 20-20 NYT-dumbasses!

If you KNOW the exact location of a feature, it is a simple task to look over photos/scans for that one exact spot.


26 posted on 01/14/2005 9:15:12 PM PST by steplock (http://www.outoftimeradio.org)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: drt1

See #23 , I don't think Satellite technology is upto charting the deep.


27 posted on 01/14/2005 9:16:26 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (A Proud member of Free Republic ~~The New Face of the Fourth Estate since 1996.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

But former submarine captains said Navy investigators were likely to examine whether it had been prudent to travel at such a high speed, 30 knots, given the age and spottiness of the information."

Unfortunately, the Navy tradition is to be very harsh with a Captain who ship is endangered or damaged his ship, almost regardless of the circumstances.

Remember the skipper of the Indiana was steaming through the Pacific when torpedoed by a Japanese sub. There was a question about whether the ship was properly zig-zagging while under the command of a junior officer. Although most of his men stepped forward to testify for the Captain, he was court-martialed.

And the Captain of the intelligence ship Pueblo was sent into waters near N. Korea without any armed escort--but he took the blame when his ship was captured.


28 posted on 01/14/2005 9:17:58 PM PST by wildbill
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: endthematrix

It is always nice to have a scapegoat - isn't it!

For anyone who has ever done cartography - the United States has the most accurate maps of anywhere on this earth - more accurate than enyone else can even dream of!

I see we have plenty of "progressive" thinkers on here to spread a little hate and discontent about our country.


29 posted on 01/14/2005 9:20:07 PM PST by steplock (http://www.outoftimeradio.org)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: wildbill
"And the Captain of the intelligence ship Pueblo was sent into waters near N. Korea without any armed escort--but he took the blame when his ship was captured."

Sorry, but I beg to disagree.

He was court-martialed, and deservedly so, not for getting caught but for not scuttling the ship and not destroying the electronics onboard instead of letting it fall into N. Korean hands.

The electronics that the N. Koreans got was devastating to us. It took years to recover.

30 posted on 01/14/2005 9:23:32 PM PST by El Gran Salseron ( The replies by this poster are meant for self-amusement only. Read at your own risk. :-))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: neverdem
Submarine Crash Shows Navy Had Gaps in Mapping System

Actually, the Maps didn't show he gaps correctly.

31 posted on 01/14/2005 9:24:03 PM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Thanks, the info is very impressive.

I know radars and probably all sonars are incapable of very deep penetration but I just think that radar or sonar would be able to at least indicate the depth down to say 1,000 feet. This would at least provide adequate information for commercial and Naval operations.

32 posted on 01/14/2005 9:26:01 PM PST by drt1
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

BTTT


33 posted on 01/14/2005 9:33:18 PM PST by Cold Heart
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

The links in #23 are defunct. You're bad. Go to bed. That's enough FReeping for you. /sarcasm


34 posted on 01/14/2005 9:34:50 PM PST by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

Hmm. I don't know. Subs have ben zipping around there for over 60 years. Could be more to the story.
Who of us knows what happend.

Some of my favorite sub sights

NAVSOURCE SUBMARINE PHOTO ARCHIVES
http://www.navsource.org/archives/subidx.htm

SSN-711 San Francisco
http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/08711.htm

Submarine Fleet-Diesel and Nuclear Submarine Homepages
http://www.rontini.com/fleet.html

THE USS HALIBUT SSGN/SSN 587 AND THE NEW SSGN's GANGWAY PAGE
http://users.erols.com/marelk/

USS Halibut Veteran's Association Web Page
http://users.erols.com/marelk/USS%20Halibut%20Vets.htm


35 posted on 01/14/2005 9:36:59 PM PST by quietolong
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: drt1

Are you a submariner?


36 posted on 01/14/2005 9:37:47 PM PST by MEG33 (GOD BLESS OUR ARMED FORCES)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: MEG33

No but I have operated on two conventional subs on short shakedown type deployments (1 day each) and was in the Navy as an E-5 (See my profile) :-)


37 posted on 01/14/2005 9:40:04 PM PST by drt1
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: El Gran Salseron

I agree, Sal. Do I know you?


38 posted on 01/14/2005 9:40:46 PM PST by BIGLOOK (I once opposed keelhauling but have recently come to my senses.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: namsman

Ping!


39 posted on 01/14/2005 9:46:06 PM PST by SW6906
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BIGLOOK

I don't recognize your nick but that doesn't say much as I can't remember what I had for breakfast this morning. :-)

The years have taken their toll. :-)

Strange, but I can remember things from 40 years ago in very intimate detail as if they had happened yesterday but very little recent stuff.


40 posted on 01/14/2005 9:47:30 PM PST by El Gran Salseron ( The replies by this poster are meant for self-amusement only. Read at your own risk. :-))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 221-235 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson