Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Sergeant (Brian Lipinski) says Abu Ghraib guard (Charles Graner) often defied orders
AP via Houston Chronicle ^ | Jan. 12, 2005, 1:40PM | no byline

Posted on 01/12/2005 6:38:52 PM PST by weegee

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-37 last
To: 5Madman2

I didn't know that MP's have always been in short supply. That explains a few things.

With the type of war we have to fight now (and for the next hundred years or more), I hope we'll see an increase in MP troops and a decrease in the area's that aren't as important right now.


21 posted on 01/12/2005 8:13:01 PM PST by 68skylark
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Recovering Ex-hippie

The female general in charge thinks its Bush and Rumsfield's fault.

Military discipline is funny. Some officers may get it in the neck because they DIDN'T know what was happening in their command on the night shift.


22 posted on 01/12/2005 8:13:48 PM PST by wildbill
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Cicero
There have been plenty of incompetent Generals in our military who were guys -- tons of them. If you want to slam on someone (who probably deserves it), there's really no need to get into gender.
23 posted on 01/12/2005 8:15:03 PM PST by 68skylark
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: 5Madman2

"...I see Graner as a rogue that probably intimidated the Junior Officers and Senior NCOs that din't have the stones to deal with him... "

During the hitch I served in the old army, (50's) such a thing would have never even been conceived of.


24 posted on 01/12/2005 8:30:50 PM PST by Ursus arctos horribilis ("It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!" Emiliano Zapata 1879-1919)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: 68skylark; Chieftain

Sorry, gender is an issue because she was "incompetent" and a high ranking female. I just want to make sure that the focus is on whether the officer is competent,was there any gender promoting issues that may have put this female officer in a position for which she was not prepared or is she being a scapegoat for poor military planning, resources or overall coordination. If any of these issues are involved because she was a female, this is detrimental to all women's career options in the military and puts a bad light on all the effective female officers.

All I'm saying is that if we don't want gender to be an issue, we need to look at this situation to see if gender was a factor in resulting a negative outcome.


25 posted on 01/12/2005 8:36:00 PM PST by Recovering Ex-hippie (Support our troops!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Ursus arctos horribilis
If the guy mentioned is the Brian Lipinski I remember as a private many years ago, he was a good man. The unit he and I served together in during the late '80's was sent to Desert Shield with a weak commander and rogue first sergeant. Both of them had to be "administratively transferred" out of the unit and replaced with a competent Captain and First Shirt. Not sure if Brian was there at the time.
26 posted on 01/12/2005 8:51:12 PM PST by RebelBanker (To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Recovering Ex-hippie

I catch your point, I think, and it seems reasonable.

I just know from reading history (including very recent history) that we have huge numbers of male General officers who really weren't ready for combat. So it's hard for me to be too tough on a female in the same situation, just because she's a woman.

I agree with you that gender shouldn't be a reason for special promotion. And I sense that you'll agree that gender shouldn't be a reason for special criticism either.


27 posted on 01/12/2005 8:57:10 PM PST by 68skylark
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: 68skylark

I have nothing against women. It's a fact of life that in the military under the present political constraints, openly criticizing a woman officer is very difficult.

There was a good deal of reason to think that General Lipinski ran an incompetent organization. But no one ever openly criticized her, except here on the web. I can only guess why, but my experience in the military some years ago suggests that dealing with an issue like that probably would take a braver man than facing the enemy in battle.

I agree that this is speculative, but not entirely groundless speculation.


28 posted on 01/12/2005 9:13:48 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Recovering Ex-hippie

"All I'm saying is that if we don't want gender to be an issue, we need to look at this situation to see if gender was a factor in resulting a negative outcome."

The issue is Graner, England and a few other bad apples! Their actions were abhorrent and opened a door for the enemy to create even more hate of Americans. I would have felt much better about it if they would have taken the prisoners out, lined them up against a wall and sent them to meet their 72 virgins! These troops had no class, no honor. They knew what they were doing was wrong and the buck should stop right there! Making excuses for your actions is B.S. If you do the crime, then shut up and do the time!


29 posted on 01/12/2005 10:06:13 PM PST by Proud Conservative2 (You are accountable for your actions...no excuses!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Cicero

The General's name is Karpinski. She appeared on one of the networks when the incident first broke in civilian clothes and whined up a storm about persecution. A disgusting spectacle I must say.

Finally after a year of media coverage we finally hear of an E-7 and above in these peoples chain of command. The media coverage gives the impression that the prison was run by an E-5 taking orders directly from Rumsfeld. Where the hell was the leadership when these events were occuring?


30 posted on 01/13/2005 3:12:05 AM PST by Wristpin ( Varitek says to A-Rod: "We don't throw at .260 hitters.....")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: 68skylark

Tey are one of the support services that are always overtasked and undermanned. They are taking steps to boost manning, but anytime that happens, more dirtbags slip through.

It's easy to flush a problem when manning is good. Gets tough when it's tight


31 posted on 01/13/2005 3:20:40 AM PST by 5Madman2 (DemocRATS are Vermin)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Ursus arctos horribilis

You're right

Unfortunately, society has changed and certain aspects of that change have manifested themselves in our military.

This next is not to slam on the Guard/Reserves, because they are critical and do Damn fine work.

Many Guard/Reserve units are pretty loose with discipline. Things that would get dealt with in active units get left alone because of differrent attitudes, or just plain lack of time.

On the other hand-I've seen active units that would have tolerated a Graner


32 posted on 01/13/2005 3:26:44 AM PST by 5Madman2 (DemocRATS are Vermin)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Ursus arctos horribilis; Chieftain

Your point speaks to leadership. As well as discipline.


33 posted on 01/13/2005 5:24:35 AM PST by Recovering Ex-hippie (Support our troops!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Proud Conservative2; Chieftain

I agree with you on your point about these characters being 'bad apples" and really causing America so much more international political damage than their stupid behaviors warranted. My question is where was Karpinsiki in all of this? She says on the one hand she was in charge and then says, " Uh, the intelligense unit wouldn't let me in there,blah, blah, blah."

I too am furious with these jerks, Graner ,et all,and agree they deserve what they get. But I don't think this was one incident and wonder where was Karpinski?


34 posted on 01/13/2005 5:30:42 AM PST by Recovering Ex-hippie (Support our troops!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Recovering Ex-hippie
Janis Karpinski was 'tired' and she needed her beauty rest. Far be it for her, the Commanding General, to leave her private quarters at night and do a little 'LBWA' (Leadership By Wandering Around). I mean after all, she IS a woman in an Arab country during a war... < /sarcasm>.

Karpinski is where the buck deserves to stop.

35 posted on 01/13/2005 6:03:18 AM PST by Chieftain (Thank you Swift Boat Veterans/POWs/Vietnam Veterans for Truth - you did it for ALL your brothers!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: weegee
"Another detainee said Graner forced him to eat pork and drink alcohol in violation of his Muslim faith, and on one occasion made him thank Jesus for keeping him alive at the notorious Baghdad prison."

See, Graner's not all that bad!

36 posted on 01/13/2005 7:37:11 AM PST by Redbob
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Recovering Ex-hippie

The Army is protecting her to justify their policies regarding women in the military.


37 posted on 01/13/2005 7:38:35 AM PST by Redbob
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-37 last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson