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Damage To Submarine Believed Severe
The Day, New London ^ | 1/11/2005 | ROBERT A. HAMILTON

Posted on 01/12/2005 1:19:46 AM PST by Boot Hill

By ROBERT A. HAMILTON
Day Staff Writer, Navy/Defense/Electric Boat
Published on 1/11/2005

Photographs of the USS San Francisco returning to Apra Harbor in Guam Monday show the submarine's sonar sphere and forward ballast tanks were heavily damaged when it hit an undersea mountain, experienced submariners said.

One man was killed in the collision, and 23 others, about one of every six crewmen on board, were injured and evacuated from the submarine, making the incident one of the most serious undersea accidents in memory.

“This is the first time in my memory that anyone was ever killed in one of these accidents,” said retired Navy Capt. John W. “Bill” Sheehan of Waterford, who commanded a submarine in the 1970s.

The bow of the submarine normally rides high in the water, but the San Francisco's was steeply angled down as the submarine passed the Orote cliffs in Guam, Navy photos showed. That indicated it was carrying many extra tons of water.

Sources said the sonar sphere was cracked, which would allow in about 20 tons of water [equal to 10.6 foot diam]. The ballast tanks were cracked and flooded as well, the sources said, and portions of the hull near the bow were buckled.

Retired submariners said the sonar dome, which is always flooded, probably absorbed enough of the impact to keep the pressure hull from cracking, allowing the crew to save the ship.

The reactor, located amidships, and the rest of the propulsion plant in the rear of the ship were undamaged, the Navy said.

Navy sources said the ship was traveling more than 500 feet below the surface at more than 30 knots, about 35 mph, when it collided with the sea mount about 350 miles south of Guam.

Retired Navy Capt. John C. Markowicz of Waterford said the injuries were not surprising.

“Put yourself in an automobile going 35 mph and you hit a brick wall without even having a seat belt on,” he said.

The crewman who was killed, Machinist Mate 2nd Class Joseph A. Ashley, 24, of Akron, Ohio, died from a head wound he sustained when he was thrown against a pump in the machinery spaces.

•••During the Cold War, the Navy focused on charting the Atlantic because of the threat the Soviet Union posed from that direction. Submariners said that until recently some of the Pacific Ocean charts carried warnings based on soundings made by Captain Cook in the 18th century, and even modern charts can be based on soundings taken 20 miles or more apart.

Local submariners say the area where the sub was traveling is notorious for no-warning sea mounts; the water depth can change 1,000 fathoms in seconds.

“We know more about the backside of the moon than we do about the bottom of the ocean,” said retired Navy Capt. James Patton, president of Submarine Tactics and Technology in North Stonington.

The area in which the San Francisco was traveling, through the Caroline Islands chain, is one of the worst, with dozens of islands rising out of the water and many more uncharted seamounts between them.

“It's just bad water,” Patton said.

Submariners said that if the navigation team was operating a Fathometer, the San Francisco probably would have had time to change course no matter how steep the seamount. But if it thought it was in deep water, it might not have been running that piece of equipment.

“The Fathometer sends a signal out, and you can be tracked when you're sending that signal,” said retired Navy Capt. Raymond D. Woolrich of Waterford, a previous commander of the Undersea Surveillance Program in the Pacific.

“One of the things I found running the undersea surveillance system is that earthquakes happen all the time in the Pacific, and that's how the earth changes,” Woolrich said. “Could there have been an unknown, uncharted seamount? Sure there could have been.”

Markowicz recalled that during a transit to the North Pole, passing near Iceland, where a lot of volcanic activity occurs, the water depth could shift hundreds of fathoms in four or five seconds, which would not have been enough time to turn a 7,000-ton submarine traveling at 35 mph.

“The slope comes up very quickly,” Markowicz said. “You have very little reaction time, and you may not even have as much warning in the Pacific (where the slopes can be even steeper.) I'm sure that the board of investigation will look at the situation very carefully.”


TOPICS: Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: collision; navy; sanfrancisco; submarine; usssanfrancisco
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To: KC_Conspirator; Severa
That's him. I never worked with him myself, but I worked with a lot of guys who did. The stories they told were incredible. He was the toughest, meanest, most demanding, SOB on the planet. Quality was his life's obsession and he didn't care who he pissed off to achieve it. From contractors to crews, perfection was the only acceptable standard.

That's why that sub didn't go to the bottom.

61 posted on 01/12/2005 7:36:40 AM PST by Ditto ( No trees were killed in sending this message, but billions of electrons were inconvenienced.)
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To: Boot Hill

Hey, thanks for the ping! This is just amazing.


62 posted on 01/12/2005 7:38:40 AM PST by FreedomHasACost
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To: WildTurkey
An inner hull, which surrounds the crew's living and work spaces... otherwise referred to by submariners as the people tank...
63 posted on 01/12/2005 7:45:37 AM PST by DBeers
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To: DBeers
"They tried numerous times to maneuver him through various hatches," Mr. Ashley said. "But it just didn't happen."

-looks like some training/drill or new methodology is in order?

64 posted on 01/12/2005 7:47:54 AM PST by DBeers
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To: Rebelbase

I've been a fan of PF ever since I heard "Several small species of furry animals gathered in a cave and grooving with a pict..."

Meddle, DSOTM.....incredible stuff....maybe it was the drugs.


65 posted on 01/12/2005 7:52:02 AM PST by gortklattu (As the preacher in Blazing Saddles said "You're on your own.")
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To: Quilla
For all intents and purposes, that Sonar Dome was their window. Unfortunately, sea mounts don't make noise, unless they're hit.
66 posted on 01/12/2005 8:04:39 AM PST by SmithL (ex-Boomer Rider)
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To: DBeers
As I understand it, the difficultly was not in getting him thru the longitudinal hatches , it was when they would get him vertical, to get him out, that his condition worsened.
That makes sense with a severe head injury
67 posted on 01/12/2005 8:08:34 AM PST by Robe (Rome did not create a great empire by talking, they did it by killing all those who opposed them)
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To: DBeers
Fascinating read by one of the authors of Blind Man's Bluff.
68 posted on 01/12/2005 8:13:38 AM PST by SmithL (ex-Boomer Rider)
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To: Rain-maker

Or something even bigger.

Chineese sub? (kinda like the P3 vs chink fighter)
We'd never hear about it.


69 posted on 01/12/2005 8:28:59 AM PST by Farnham (In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not.)
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To: Boot Hill


70 posted on 01/12/2005 9:26:29 AM PST by Major_Risktaker
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To: Robe
"BTW,Hey Boot, I don't either have one eye!!!! Fat, yes, one eyed, NO!!!) (:^)"

Shame on you, wrong response! That famous movie quote was your cue to respond with: "Fill your hand, you son of a bitch!"

--Boot Hill

71 posted on 01/12/2005 1:26:58 PM PST by Boot Hill (The only front that threatens a successful GWOT is America's own fifth-columnists.)
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To: Ditto
Quality was his [Rickover's] life's obsession and he didn't care who he pissed off to achieve it. From contractors to crews, perfection was the only acceptable standard.

When they were in the design phase for the first reactor systems, negotiating contracts, the potential vendors for main coolant pumps asked for a specification on allowed leakage.

"There must be zero leakage," said Rickover. The vendors responded, "Every pump made has some leakage! You have to give us some maximum allowable amount to shoot for."

"Alright," he responded, "the maximum allowable leakage must be less than one thimble-full per century."

One of the great honors of my life was being publicly lauded (along with another reactor operator) for excellent performance by Hymie over the 1MC, when he gave his end-of-drills critique during sea trials on the Seahorse. That was after I had gotten into a (very brief!) argument with him, when my watch's drills were over, about who could relieve me. LOL!

72 posted on 01/12/2005 3:46:06 PM PST by IonImplantGuru (PhD, School of Hard Knocks)
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To: IonImplantGuru
Great story. I also heard one about a young Marine on guard duty for a boat in port. Rickover came up the gang plank and didn't show his ID. The Marine knew who he was but told him he must show his ID and told him to stop. He tried to keep going and the kid pulled his .45 and told him he would shoot him. Rickover then made a report to the kid's CO praising him for his diligence. He was always testing people down to the smallest details.
73 posted on 01/13/2005 5:10:53 AM PST by Ditto ( No trees were killed in sending this message, but billions of electrons were inconvenienced.)
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To: Ditto

Thanks for the photo of YARVAR [You're absolutely right Vice Admiral Rickover] Had the distinction of meeting him in Holy Loch many years ago. The SFO crew all deserve great recognition for bringing their boat back at all. Continual low pressure blow and sheer guts brought them and their boat back to Apra. Have great empathy for their situation having been a QM on 4 different boats - smoke boats and boomers.


74 posted on 01/17/2005 11:39:17 AM PST by highland1
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To: Boot Hill
New photos just in:


75 posted on 01/27/2005 9:38:27 AM PST by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: FreedomCalls
Holy mother of pearl! How did that sub ever make it back home?

--Boot Hill

76 posted on 01/27/2005 11:44:36 AM PST by Boot Hill (How do you verbalize a noun?)
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