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Damage To Submarine Believed Severe
The Day, New London ^ | 1/11/2005 | ROBERT A. HAMILTON

Posted on 01/12/2005 1:19:46 AM PST by Boot Hill

By ROBERT A. HAMILTON
Day Staff Writer, Navy/Defense/Electric Boat
Published on 1/11/2005

Photographs of the USS San Francisco returning to Apra Harbor in Guam Monday show the submarine's sonar sphere and forward ballast tanks were heavily damaged when it hit an undersea mountain, experienced submariners said.

One man was killed in the collision, and 23 others, about one of every six crewmen on board, were injured and evacuated from the submarine, making the incident one of the most serious undersea accidents in memory.

“This is the first time in my memory that anyone was ever killed in one of these accidents,” said retired Navy Capt. John W. “Bill” Sheehan of Waterford, who commanded a submarine in the 1970s.

The bow of the submarine normally rides high in the water, but the San Francisco's was steeply angled down as the submarine passed the Orote cliffs in Guam, Navy photos showed. That indicated it was carrying many extra tons of water.

Sources said the sonar sphere was cracked, which would allow in about 20 tons of water [equal to 10.6 foot diam]. The ballast tanks were cracked and flooded as well, the sources said, and portions of the hull near the bow were buckled.

Retired submariners said the sonar dome, which is always flooded, probably absorbed enough of the impact to keep the pressure hull from cracking, allowing the crew to save the ship.

The reactor, located amidships, and the rest of the propulsion plant in the rear of the ship were undamaged, the Navy said.

Navy sources said the ship was traveling more than 500 feet below the surface at more than 30 knots, about 35 mph, when it collided with the sea mount about 350 miles south of Guam.

Retired Navy Capt. John C. Markowicz of Waterford said the injuries were not surprising.

“Put yourself in an automobile going 35 mph and you hit a brick wall without even having a seat belt on,” he said.

The crewman who was killed, Machinist Mate 2nd Class Joseph A. Ashley, 24, of Akron, Ohio, died from a head wound he sustained when he was thrown against a pump in the machinery spaces.

•••During the Cold War, the Navy focused on charting the Atlantic because of the threat the Soviet Union posed from that direction. Submariners said that until recently some of the Pacific Ocean charts carried warnings based on soundings made by Captain Cook in the 18th century, and even modern charts can be based on soundings taken 20 miles or more apart.

Local submariners say the area where the sub was traveling is notorious for no-warning sea mounts; the water depth can change 1,000 fathoms in seconds.

“We know more about the backside of the moon than we do about the bottom of the ocean,” said retired Navy Capt. James Patton, president of Submarine Tactics and Technology in North Stonington.

The area in which the San Francisco was traveling, through the Caroline Islands chain, is one of the worst, with dozens of islands rising out of the water and many more uncharted seamounts between them.

“It's just bad water,” Patton said.

Submariners said that if the navigation team was operating a Fathometer, the San Francisco probably would have had time to change course no matter how steep the seamount. But if it thought it was in deep water, it might not have been running that piece of equipment.

“The Fathometer sends a signal out, and you can be tracked when you're sending that signal,” said retired Navy Capt. Raymond D. Woolrich of Waterford, a previous commander of the Undersea Surveillance Program in the Pacific.

“One of the things I found running the undersea surveillance system is that earthquakes happen all the time in the Pacific, and that's how the earth changes,” Woolrich said. “Could there have been an unknown, uncharted seamount? Sure there could have been.”

Markowicz recalled that during a transit to the North Pole, passing near Iceland, where a lot of volcanic activity occurs, the water depth could shift hundreds of fathoms in four or five seconds, which would not have been enough time to turn a 7,000-ton submarine traveling at 35 mph.

“The slope comes up very quickly,” Markowicz said. “You have very little reaction time, and you may not even have as much warning in the Pacific (where the slopes can be even steeper.) I'm sure that the board of investigation will look at the situation very carefully.”


TOPICS: Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: collision; navy; sanfrancisco; submarine; usssanfrancisco
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To: Boot Hill

You know you're in trouble when the most recent notation on your chart says "Heare be Dragons..."


21 posted on 01/12/2005 5:23:36 AM PST by gridlock (ELIMINATE PERVERSE INCENTIVES)
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To: Quilla
"Wasn't a transparent steel product recently developed?"

YES! Well actually it was transparent aluminum. And it was invented in 1986 by Paramount Studios for the release of Star Trek IV, The Voyage Home.   J

(Never heard of transparent steel.)

--Boot Hill

22 posted on 01/12/2005 5:25:53 AM PST by Boot Hill (The only front that threatens a successful GWOT is America's own fifth-columnists.)
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To: gridlock
"Heare be Dragons..."

LOL, best line of the day!

--Boot Hill

23 posted on 01/12/2005 5:28:23 AM PST by Boot Hill (The only front that threatens a successful GWOT is America's own fifth-columnists.)
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To: Boot Hill
I can only imagine the laxative effect of being at 500 ft and hitting something.
24 posted on 01/12/2005 5:36:48 AM PST by fso301
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To: Coop

US Submariners are the best of the best. OTOH, it never ceases to amaze me how absolutely professional the US sailor is under pressure to save a ship. Give the credit to the CPOs, an amazing bunch of leaders.


25 posted on 01/12/2005 5:37:08 AM PST by wiley
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To: Quilla
I'm near'bout ignorant about subs, too, but as most of the guys in the know are busy on another thread I'll give your question a shot.

The number one aspect of subs is stealth.

The San Fran was traveling deep and at speed. It wouldn't have mattered if the entire sub were made of transparency surface light wouldn't have reached that depth and all they would see would be blackness.

Even if there had been a window and the water clear, at the speed they were traveling the uncharted mount still would have loomed up faster than they could have reacted and averted.

The equipment they "see" with is very good. But even with it this happened. It's just one of the hazards of sub operations. Thankfully, as history shows, this is very rare.
26 posted on 01/12/2005 5:41:00 AM PST by Lakeside
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To: SubMareener

Right ON!This has got to be some crew(not to mention their leadership)to have saved this boat!!!


27 posted on 01/12/2005 5:44:59 AM PST by bandleader
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To: Doohickey; judicial meanz; submarinerswife; PogySailor; chasio649; gobucks; Bottom_Gun; Dog Gone; ..
Steely-Eyed Killers of the Deep
28 posted on 01/12/2005 5:45:50 AM PST by Ready4Freddy (Veni Vidi Velcro)
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To: Boot Hill

Well, I don't know about transparent steel or aluminum, but there really is translucent concrete (transmits enough light to illuminate the inside of a room).


29 posted on 01/12/2005 5:45:55 AM PST by Truth29
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To: Boot Hill
The Voyage Home has its own thread!

:-)

30 posted on 01/12/2005 5:47:16 AM PST by Quilla
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To: Lakeside
It wouldn't have mattered if the entire sub were made of transparency surface light wouldn't have reached that depth and all they would see would be blackness.

Excellent point.

BTW, I could tell by your accent (near'bout) you were a fellow Alabamian. ;-)

31 posted on 01/12/2005 5:50:26 AM PST by Quilla
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To: Boot Hill

A sub has to be scary when there is uncontrolled flooding. I have heard that some of these nukes only have about 15% excess bouyancy. That's not a lot of safety margin in an incident like this.


32 posted on 01/12/2005 5:55:08 AM PST by nightdriver
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To: Boot Hill

Transparent aluminum or synthetic sapphire is quite common. Go to a checkout at your local supermarket and look at the scanner window, that is sapphire. The watch crystal on more expensive watches, that is sapphire. Synthetic sapphire is pure aluminum oxide and it is very hard and melts or softens at very high temperatures so it is not easy to make into complex shapes. The material has a use as a window in weapon systems that employ IR seekers since it is transparent in the MWIR and is quite tough to resist the rigors of the battlefield.


33 posted on 01/12/2005 5:56:01 AM PST by Final Authority
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To: Boot Hill
I find that hard to believe. Cook did not have any other method than the old line and weight to judge depth.
34 posted on 01/12/2005 5:59:28 AM PST by reagandemo (The battle is near are you ready for the sacrifice?)
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To: Boot Hill
I recall an incident way back in the '60s, I was on the "Big E". Sometimes after flight ops ,I'd sneak down a hold up under the "round down" at the stern and have a cup of hot Coffee with a "lil" drop" added.
We were some where near the "Marianis (sp?)Trench"
While sitting there kinda hidden amongst the capstans, two black mess cooks came up to dump the garbage over the fantail.
After completing their duties they took the opportunity to have a smoke. As they were leaning there contemplating the vastness of the Pacific Ocean. One turned to the other and said,"You know ,Dude, dat sure be alot a water out there", the other replied after a brief moment saying " Yup, and dat only be the top of it"
I knew in that moment, that these two guys really understood the old saying "Dear GOD, The Ocean is so big and my Ship so Small"

(BTW,Hey Boot, I don't either have one eye!!!! Fat, yes, one eyed, NO!!!) (:^)

35 posted on 01/12/2005 6:01:10 AM PST by Robe (Rome did not create a great empire by talking, they did it by killing all those who opposed them)
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To: Rebelbase

---"“We know more about the backside of the moon than we do about the bottom of the ocean,”" ---

Yeah, I haven't heard of any subs running into things up there....

;)


36 posted on 01/12/2005 6:03:12 AM PST by gortklattu (As the preacher in Blazing Saddles said "You're on your own.")
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To: Boot Hill
show the submarine's sonar sphere

You unbolt the fiberglass nose and bolt and new one on.

37 posted on 01/12/2005 6:06:10 AM PST by bmwcyle (Washington DC RINO Hunting Guide)
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To: Robe
“This is the first time in my memory that anyone was ever killed in one of these accidents,”

What about the Thresher --nuke sub sank killing all back in '62?

38 posted on 01/12/2005 6:06:51 AM PST by expat_panama
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To: Quilla

Yup! I've been here a combined 16 years so I feel like a native. I never realized just how much I used the phrase "I'm gonna get me a..." 'til so much was made of it in the past campaign season. It just rolled off my tongue so easily I thought it was proper grammar.(smile)


39 posted on 01/12/2005 6:07:07 AM PST by Lakeside
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To: Lakeside

I heard that!


40 posted on 01/12/2005 6:09:15 AM PST by Quilla
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