Posted on 01/10/2005 4:02:34 PM PST by Tailgunner Joe
A more serious question here, what advantages do you feel adding another layer of government to European society provides for you?
I've long felt the world needs less centralization, not more. Compare the progess of Medieval to Victorian China and Europe in regards to both freedom and prosperity...
I thought we were talking about Naz.. Sorry the EU?
Same difference.
Your rhetorical question about; "What freedoms have I lost?", you answered to my satisfaction. That being, you are unaware of any lost freedoms, so to enumerate them would be a futile exercise.
I can understand your confusion concerning the pistol example . . . after all, pistols were banned in the UK long before its accession to the EU. But don't tell the knee-jerkers here.
But again, here is what I am trying to get at, one can argue that the EU will simply not make things worse, as you've largely done here, but what benefit, or potential benefit, does it provide for you?
"Threat" you say, EU will be a threat to the U.S.? I hope not, I can't see that happening. Really the slowly evolving EU reminds me more of the early days of the U.S. Whne each state printed their own money. I think of it more as independent nations (like our independent states) forming one "country." For the E.U., the nations are to large and independent to really be one "country" but neve will they ever be a "threat" to us. Competitors, yeah sure, we compete against each other for business etc. but not a "threat" to us militarily.
I think you misunderstand me. I didn't say you personally lost any freedoms, but your nation as whole HAS. They are giving up their freedom to regulate some of their own practices, such as agriculture, finance, and possibly (I believe that this has not been finalized for the EU yet)even foreign policy. How do you feel that submitting to the EU's authority on these things is NOT a loss of freedom? Just because you permit it doesn't mean it's not a loss, kwim?
I wasn't speaking of defense, by the way. I was speaking of your foreign policy objectives. Your government already goes in different directions from both France and Germany, for example. From what I can tell, the UK's foreign policy is much closer to that of the former Soviet Republics and Australia than any other country on the Continent. Going along with a Foreign Minister from another country might be hunky dory when you agree, but what happens when you don't? All of this power is being centralized in areas that are not always going to be friendly to the UK's interests. The effects of this can trickle down to you, as well.
I totally agree with you. I can't imagine any of the people posting have ever tried to do business in Europe. The E.U. is at east making some things "common." Like package labeling for example. They are pooling their money to for example, finance healthcare in deeloping countries. Instead of all these nations having overlapping projects, now it is better organized. How would it be in the U.S. if Illinois had a Malaria treatment program in Brazil, and then California came in and started dupication the efforts of Illinois? Europe is jsut doing what the U.S. already does, except for them it is countries banding together and for us it is states.
I don't understand why the Euros didn't leave well enough alone. They were on friendly terms, traded freely, and respected one another. But now they're throwing themselves into the big cement mixer, and it smells like trouble down the road..
You wrote:
I'm not saying the EU is perfect, very far from it but some of the benefits are:
I do not need to wear a uniform to kill fellow Europeans. (THE most important reason)
I get food cheaper.
I can work anywhere in the EU.
I can travel anywhere in the EU.
I have a large block of 450 million people behind me in trade disputes.
My whole nation benefits from a massive single market and harmony of company law.
It's basically a market of 450 million people instead (in my case) 50 million. Money and Peace, what's not to like?
My Reply: 100% agree with you. The changes thus far have been an improvement. The posters seem to feel that there is now an "extra" layer in Brussels. However they do not grasp the individual country laws that were recinded that opened up free trade between the E.U. Member states. It is not "more" laws, just more uniformity in laws. Makes it easier to do business.
And how does it feel knowing that someone in East Germany is cancelling your vote?
I enjoy it here because there is not many people in Britain who think the way you people do.
Give it time, Your Muslims will change your tune very shortly. They have already. I suspect that will be one of many eye openers you will enjoy in the very near future.
However they do not grasp the individual country laws that were recinded
Now be reasonable. How do you expect a country with 50 State Constitutions under a U.S. Constitution to grasp something that complex?
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