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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past

I think you misunderstand...I really don't care whether or not you think same-sex sex is okay. It is of no concern to me. I am concerned how you treat others and to be honest, on a personal level, you should give respect to all, even to drug users. Too often, "standing up for values" is nothing more than a cover for meanness or snobbery. I don't necessarily people who strut around like the "Church Lady" from the SNL skit to really understand, but it is possible to understand others without accepting what they do all the time.


44 posted on 01/08/2005 7:50:24 AM PST by garbanzo (Free people will set the course of history)
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To: garbanzo

I think "standing up for values" TRUMPS "being nice." But it is not impossible to do both. From reading your posts on this thread, it seems to me that you want to end the right of anyone to have their own opinions on these matters. Nothing is more offensive than to take a persons CHILD and teach them that perverted behaviors are fine and should be respected. You can say you do not care if they think they are "fine" all you want. This video and curriculum is aimed at teaching the kids that it is fine, and that anything else is bigotry.


49 posted on 01/08/2005 7:55:04 AM PST by The Ghost of FReepers Past (Legislatures are so outdated. If you want real political victory, take your issue to court.)
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To: garbanzo

We DO undeerstand, that's the problem! If people want to live in denial, they can. But loving thy neighbor does not require that we love the sins. We spnd our lives teaching our kids right from wrong, and to love the sinner not the sin. Just as we do them, when they do wrong.

This does not mean acceptance, it means something closer to tough love.


307 posted on 01/08/2005 5:01:57 PM PST by gidget7 (God Bless America, and our President George W. Bush)
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To: garbanzo

You can hate the sin but love the sinner. No problem there.


452 posted on 01/10/2005 8:50:59 AM PST by Marysecretary (Thank you, Lord, for FOUR MORE YEARS!!!)
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To: garbanzo

you should give respect to all,


Your basic problem here is your complete lack of understanding.
You have no idea what 'respect' is.


507 posted on 02/08/2005 1:11:51 PM PST by loboinok (Gun Control is hitting what you aim at!)
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To: garbanzo
The relevant passages begin in the sixth paragraph.

How Elites Impose Gay Marriage from the Top Down

How Elites Impose Gay Marriage from the Top Down

by Nicholas Stix

July, 2004

May 17 was, in the words of Ron Crews of the Massachusetts Family Institute, “a day of mourning.” For on that day, Massachusetts officials began marrying man to man, and woman to woman. Those who brought about this state of affairs claim to believe in “equality” and to be “democrats,” but in fact are elites who will have nothing of equality, let alone democracy. Five elite groups brought about same-sex marriage, which is however not an unalterable condition: Activist judges, the establishment media, ultraliberal elected officials, gay activist organizations and the homosexual activist, “shadow government.”

In the Supreme Court’s June 26, 2003 “Lawrence” decision overturning the Texas sodomy law, it went beyond the claims of “privacy” that homosexual activists had always previously made, with some justices already leaning in their decisions towards same-sex marriage. In a game of judicial “can you top this,” on November 18 in Goodridge v. Dept. of Public Health, led by Chief Justice Margaret H. Marshall, the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court projected a non-existent right to same-sex marriage onto the 200-year-old, Massachusetts State Constitution. And beginning on February 12, when San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom ordered city officials, in clear violation of California state law, to illegally marry people of the same sex, for weeks, California state judges found every specious excuse imaginable (including “punctuation”) to refuse doing their jobs.

According to its own archive, in the past year the New York Times has published 305 articles on same-sex marriage, virtually all of them with a one-sided, pro-same-sex marriage slant. The Times and the rest of the elite, establishment media hammer away, claiming that homosexuals are in the same situation that blacks were during the civil rights movement, and that to deny homosexuals the right to marry members of the same sex, would be to treat them as second-class citizens. As Sen. Rick Santorum observed prior to Lawrence, the same argument would justify incestuous and multispousal marriages. The elite, politically correct media have, however, “won” the argument via their usual method -- by variously silencing, caricaturing, and demonizing their opponents. And through threats: A house editorial in the March 11 New York Times made a veiled threat to politically destroy Republican Mayor Michael Bloomberg, if he did not commence performing illegal same-sex weddings, and direct city officials to do the same.

Beginning in February, rogue political leaders, most notoriously San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom and New Paltz, NY Mayor Jason West, demagogued the issue, spitting on their respective state laws, while wrapping themselves in imaginary flags of “equality,” illegally marrying same-sex couples. As professor of law Vikram David Amar of the University of California’s Hastings College of Law in San Francisco pointed out, Mayor Newsom violated no less than three provisions of California State law, as well as the California state constitution’s ban on officials refusing to uphold laws with which they disagree. “Finally, and perhaps most importantly, section 308.5 of the Family Law Code -- which was enacted by the voters themselves as an initiative (Proposition 22) in the 2000 election -- says that ‘only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California.’"

Homosexual activist groups have been among the most influential players in the same-sex marriage campaign. Working behind the scenes with political leaders, news editors, public and private managers and educators, these groups have for the past thirty years wielded increasing power over what Americans may see and hear and say and do. Often at taxpayer expense, they have imposed a situation in which gays and their agenda must always be depicted in a positive manner, and their critics demonized. Some activist groups have increasingly hijacked public institutions, which they use for gay political organizing, same-sex marriage politicking, and most importantly, sexual recruitment.

One such powerful activist group, GLSEN (the Gay, Lesbian, and Straight Education Network, pronounced “glisten”) has developed a curriculum promoting same-sex marriage to schoolchildren. One of the lesson plans instructs educators, “Elicit laws or customs that students feel are reflective of current marriage practice and … the underlying attitudes/beliefs. These practices reflect the ideas that marriage requires compatibility, economic interdependence, and that marriage is first and foremost about love – not procreation.”

But promoting same-sex marriage is just the tip of the iceberg for GLSEN, which functions in the schools through homosexual teacher-activists. The group, which was founded in 1990 by Kevin Jennings, was originally named GLISTN, as in the “Gay and Lesbian Independent School Teachers Network.”

GLSEN Los Angeles sells a homosexualist curriculum that starts in kindergarten, “cootie shots” (which as a traveling “play” has also reached tens of thousands of young school children), whereby it seeks to impose homosexuality on all subjects.

In “Play Wedding,” designed for K-2, “Two little girls play dolls and talk about a wedding between two men one of them attended.” In “La Peluca de Su Mama,” which is also promoted for K-2 pupils, “A Latino boy is mocked and teased by his classmates for trying on his mother’s wig.” In “Billy Tipton,” for grades 3-6, “Billy, a jazz musician and heartthrob, who lived her/his entire life as a man, shares his/her story.” In three other lessons, little boys are encouraged variously to wear dresses, don their mother’s high heels, and paint their fingernails bright orange.

GLSEN activist and “Cootie Shots” co-editor and theater director Norma Bowles claims, “We started hearing from parents and teachers that something like this was needed for elementary schools. As young as first and second grade, kids are calling each other names like sissy and queerboy. Long before kids even know what it means, the put down of the day is ‘That’s so gay.’”

First and second graders speaking that way? Parents calling for a pro-gay curriculum? I don’t think so. In fact, in 2002 parents in Novato, CA sued to protect their children from being exposed to “Cootie Shots.”

According to World Net Daily reporter Diana Lynne, Fringe Benefits Theatre’s Web site has said that it is "dedicated to building bridges between gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender (GLBT) youth and their straight peers, teachers and parents." However, in news reports, the group sells its productions as simply “promoting diversity.” And the group has since made it impossible to reach it directly. Now, although Fringe Benefits is supported by taxpayer dollars, one must use intermediaries such as the radical leftwing Southern Poverty Law Center's Web site to reach the group.

GLSEN activists have preyed on sexually confused (which many adolescents are) children as young as 12, and have told 14-year-olds that the latter are “transgenders,” an incoherent notion that claims that one can have a sexual identity that contradicts one’s body. The “therapy” for such confused souls involves chopping off a child’s sexual organs, constructing useless facsimiles of the sex organs of the opposite sex, and counseling the mutilated child that he (it?) is what he is not.

GLSEN’s most powerful organizing tool has been “Gay-Straight Alliances” that homosexual activist-teachers organize and manipulate at their schools. GSAs operate under the ruse that children as young as 12 have not only full-blown sexual identities, but a political consciousness of conflicts involving sex and sexual orientation.

Homosexual activist groups have parlayed their power into the creation of a fifth group, which I call the homosexual “shadow government.” Thus do some states and municipalities have homosexual activist advocacy institutionalized as part of government -- "Commissions for Gay and Lesbian Youth," “Commissions on Sexual Minorities,” etc.

In Massachusetts, in what has become known as “fistgate,” thanks to the dissident Web site MassNews, state education officials have joined with activists to push homosexual practices on school children. Two parents, Brian Camenker and Scott Whiteman, publicized a March 25, 2000 talk by state education and health officials, at a GLSEN-sponsored conference, who graphically described and praised any number of homosexual sex acts, most notoriously “fisting” (forcing one’s fist and in some cases, forearm into another person’s rectum or vagina), and who downplayed the need for safe sex (forget about chastity), before an audience of children and educators. The officials had indoctrinated children as young as 12 to talk about homosexual acts. A 12-year-old girl said of homosexuality, “Don’t knock it, til you’ve tried it,” “How do you know you don’t like it?,” and that it “has a glorious history.”

One homosexual teacher-presenter had her seventh-grade students prepare a film to convince administrators that homosexuality was normal, and “not about sex.”

When Camenker and Whiteman played their tape on a local radio show, the education officials, Julie Netherland and Margot E. Abels, were fired. Netherland sued Camenker and Whiteman, arguing that they had violated her “privacy.” Note that while the taxpayer-sponsored talk took place at Tufts University, the officials said that its content was identical to what they typically taught in the public schools.

As the Seattle-based group, Parents and Teachers for Responsible Schools (PTRS) reports, “The City of Seattle and the Seattle School District have created departments, paid for with public money and staffed by public employees, to advocate for homosexual civil rights, which include the right to marry, adopt, conceive children through artificial insemination, and to receive legal status equivalent to that afforded race under law. These departments, the Seattle Commission on Sexual Minorities (‘SCSM’), and the District's Sexual Minority Advocacy Council (‘SMAC’) are part of their respective Office of Civil Rights.

PTRS reports that homosexual activists first used “AIDS education” as their Trojan horse, to get a foothold in the public schools. Since then, GLSEN has fabricated problems, including abuse and discrimination, encountered by allegedly homosexual children, as a pretext to spread its publicly-funded “safe schools” program across the nation. “Safe schools” is a second Trojan horse, which GLSEN uses to push homosexuality and same-sex marriage on school children at ever younger ages.

Homosexual activists have also used programs funded for gay “suicide prevention” to promote homosexuality and same-sex marriage. In short, all public funding for homosexual-oriented programs is used to promote homosexual sex and same-sex marriage.

It is hardly coincidental that same-sex “marriages” were performed in Massachusetts, beginning on May 17, the fiftieth anniversary of the U.S. Supreme Court’s Brown v. Topeka Board of Education ruling, in which the justices rode roughshod over the U.S. Constitution, state constitutions and referenda, and the Court’s own precedents, thereby establishing the tyranny that ever since has marched over the will of the American people and its laws with jackboots.

Originally published in Middle American News.

508 posted on 02/08/2005 4:31:27 PM PST by mrustow ("And when Moses saw the golden calf, he shouted out to the heavens, 'Jesus, Mary, and Joseph!'")
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To: garbanzo
I must say, too often, "giving respect to all" is merely a cover for the ongoing loss of respect for ones own values that is occurring in this country.

I want to keep this short, so if you are inclined to call me closed-minded or a "gay basher" I will merely laugh at you and tell you to go read my more lengthy post which discusses my opinion on this entire topic.
510 posted on 02/24/2005 9:37:27 AM PST by joel0903
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