Posted on 01/06/2005 7:58:45 PM PST by Kevin OMalley
I've been getting asked more and more about my position that high school is a waste of time and my recommendation for parents to give their children a choice to skip high school. This is in response to the liberal agendas now prevalent in high schools as well as the simple fact that such a strategy would give kids a 4 year head start on their peers. Below are some useful links for investigating this option. I will repost my own experience under that.
http://parents.berkeley.edu/advice/school/equivexam.html
UCB Parents Advice about School Taking the High School Equivalency Exam Advice and recommendations from the UCB Parents mailing list. This page is brought to you by UC Berkeley Parents Network Back to: Advice about School & Preschool --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How does GED differ from CHSPE? What's an R-4 Affadavit? 16-year-old wants to drop out & take the GED
http://www.cde.ca.gov/ta/tg/sp/documents/faq.pdf
California High School Proficiency Exam (CHSPE) Frequently Asked Questions — FAQs
http://www.hsc.org/chaos/teens/tests.php
Tests (CHSPE and GED) By Wes Beach Tests provide a limited means of measuring test-taking ability and maybe other things. Don't let them be any kind of measure of who your kids are. They can, however, serve important practical purposes such as high school completion or college admissions and credit.
There are two tests by means of which to earn a high-school-diploma-equivalent certificate: the California High School Proficiency Examination (CHSPE) and the General Educational Development (GED). The CHSPE has a narrower focus and tests skills and knowledge in reading, math, writing, and language. The GED includes these areas and also tests in science and social studies. Opinions vary about which test is more difficult, and different perceptions probably arise from kids with different strengths. The GED is more widely known and may be more readily accepted, although it is a myth that the CHSPE Certificate is unacceptable outside California.
In California (different states have different rules), anyone 18 or older can take the GED, and there are exceptions for somewhat younger people under some circumstances. It is administered by adult education schools in public school districts and is offered frequently. Contact your local adult school for information on the GED or call the GED Office at the California Department of Education at (800) 331-6316.
The CHSPE may be taken by anyone who, on the day of the exam, is 16 or older, or has finished the tenth grade, or is enrolled in the second semester of the tenth grade. This exam is offered two or three times a year at test sites throughout the state. CHSPE information bulletins can be found at high schools and libraries or at http://www.chspe.net/. For questions not answered in the bulletin, call (866) 342-4773. There is a great deal of misinformation about the CHSPE floating around, especially within the public schools. Check the official bulletin to confirm anything you hear. A student who passes the CHSPE still has the right to attend public high school if desired.
If a CHSPE or GED certificate is to be used for admission to college, entering the military, specific job requirements, etc., be sure to check at the source (the colleges, the military, the employer, etc.) regarding their policies.
Preparation books for these exams can be found in bookstores and libraries.
The College Board/Educational Testing Service offers a number of exams that can support college admission and/or can lead to college credit:
The PSAT, a shortened version of SAT I, is usually taken by high school juniors. If a student is in high school at the time he takes this test, he is automatically entered into the National Merit Scholarship competition. The PSAT is administered by high schools on their campuses; non-enrolled students may be allowed to take the test. Contact local high schools. SAT I (possibly along with SAT II) may be required for admission to four-year colleges and universities. There are two parts to SAT I: verbal—analogies, sentence completions, and critical reading questions—and math at the high school college preparatory level. The SAT's (I & II) are given at test sites throughout the state; sites are listed in the application booklet (see below). SAT II is a set of separate tests on high school subjects—world history, chemistry, French, etc. Advanced Placement: Colleges often grant credit for sufficiently high scores on AP exams. These exams are final exams in college-level classes taught in high school and are given at high schools at the end of the courses; students who have not taken the courses may be allowed to take the exams. Colleges also grant credit for good scores on CLEP exams. These exams are generally easier than AP exams, are given at test centers throughout the state, and cover the content of more than thirty college-level courses. ACT (formerly American College Testing) offers the ACT, a somewhat broader college admission test that colleges may use instead of or in addition to the SAT. The ACT consists of four sections: English, math, reading, and science. Even when SAT/ACT scores aren't required, they provide one way (there are others) to demonstrate academic ability and acquired knowledge in the absence of a traditional transcript. It may be possible to gain admission to the schools your kids choose through testing alone, and impressive test scores always add strength to a college application. Just as in the case with the SAT/ACT, good scores on AP and/or CLEP exams can support a college application. Check carefully with colleges of interest for their policies regarding credit. Classes that prepare students for these tests may be offered by high schools, adult schools, community colleges, and private companies.
Guides and preparation materials can be found in libraries and bookstores. Explanatory and application materials from the College Board and ACT can be found at high schools, colleges, and libraries, and also can be obtained directly from the College Board at (510) 873-8000 or at http://www.collegeboard.org; SAT tests will be changing within the next few years. To keep informed of those changes, check the website http://www.collegeboard.com/about/newsat/newsat.html. Information about the ACT can be obtained at (916) 631-9200 or at http://www.act.org. Information on the GED is available at http://www.acenet.edu/calec/ged.
http://www.collegeconfidential.com/dean/archives/000064.htm
College Confidential: Does CHSPE = GED?
Question: When colleges say that they accept GEDs, what does that mean for the CHSPE? Do they accept that credential as a high school diploma? If not, what should I do?
At the California High School Proficiency Examination (CHSPE) Web site (www.cde.ca.gov/statetests/chspe) you can find an Information Bulletin and Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) about the CHSPE. California law states that the Certificate of Proficiency provided to students who pass the CHSPE is equivalent to a high school diploma. In other words, institutions that are subject to California law and that require a high school diploma must also accept the CHSPE. (However, the Certificate of Proficiency is not equivalent to completing all course work required for regular graduation from high school.)
Therefore, if you've received the CHSPE Certificate of Proficiency, your certificate would be equivalent to a high school diploma. The Certificate of Proficiency is not equivalent to completing all course work required for regular graduation from high school in California. However--and this is a good caveat for most general college-entrance-related questions--you should always check with the admissions offices (or admissions sections of the Web sites) of those colleges to which you are considering applying. This is especially important if you're interested in colleges and universities outside of California that may not accept the CHSPE or may not even be familiar with it.
Prior post on another thread:
Religion Today (Southern Baptists Unhappy With public Schools)
Posted by Kevin OMalley to borntobeagle
On News/Activism 12/16/2004 12:29:50 AM PST · 100 of 100
"Mr. OMalley wins the prize!
I have to say that this is the best statement I have read over the entire course of this discussion. It has become so true in life now that HS diplomas mean nothing. "
Thanks for the kudos.
Here's a bit more follow up, a recycled post from a different article:
Allowing gifted students to skip high school in Calfornia
Posted by Kevin OMalley to Lizavetta
On News/Activism 10/24/2003 3:04:53 PM PDT · 24 of 24
I took the CHSPE when I was 16, and moved on with my life. I refer to people who remain in high school as 5 percenters, which is to say that staying in high school only makes sense for those 5% of students who either can't pass the CHSPE (California's version of the high school proficiency exam), are trying for an athletic scholarship, are the most popular guys with the prettiest cheerleaders on their arm, or just want to goof off. The rest of the people in high school should just take the test and go to community college, start getting college credits out of the way.
It's particularly bizarre that the kids today are going to be REQUIRED to take a test when they graduate; that just means that you're wasting your time from the moment you CAN pass that test. A high school diploma means NOTHING in today's economy -- a 4 year college degree is a true necessity and the sooner you get it, the better off you are.
I have often heard that the reason to stay in high school is "so you can go to the senior prom". This is just an incredible joke -- what a waste of time. I can't believe kids waste 4 years of their lives for a chance at one night of fun, or because they're "building up cherished memories". That's a crock for many, if not most high school kids today, and they need to get the heck out of this socially repressive environment... leave it to the 5 percenters to harrass each other. For those parents who are trying to convince your kids that they're having fun when the kids know they aren't, you'll end up getting the worst end of the teens' treatment when the chickens come home to roost with their surly remarks, attitude problems, and drug use.
An 18 year old with an AA degree has a MUCH better chance of getting into the college of his or her choice than an 18 year old clueless high school grad with a 3.0 grade average. This will have the effect of increasing competition in the upper tier, which will trickle down to the lower/middle capability students. Hopefully we'll see kids in community college saying things such as, "I got out in 1 year" or "I skipped high school entirely". A bright kid with an Bachelor's degree at 19 or 20 years old will finally have an education on par with what goes on in Japan & other industrialized nations.
AB2607 is the best policy proposal for secondary school in California since the introduction of the CHSPE.
We use this program.
http://www.spcollege.edu/ac/dc/
Important thing with this program is to NOT seek a GED or you will not be allowed in the program.
My son started in 10th grade, he'll be starting his 2nd term of his 2nd year next week, he's 16 and by the end of the term will have his 60 credits needed for an AA.
Good news, he'll still be eligible for the program next year so we'll continue to use the program for one more year but just for science and math courses that will be transferable to another state university.
I've got no problem with a smart kid wishing to skip right through and move on to bigger and better things. I don't see why anyone would. Of course my opinion is just common sense, which liberals lack.
Most of my high school experiance was a complete waste of my time. If you can't homeschool, PUT YOUR KIDS IN PRIVATE SCHOOL.
If someone had given me these ideas when I was a kid, I would have done it this way.
I did my 4 years in high school and graduated with a lot of extra credits and had average to good grades. Some took the minimun credits and got all straight A. In college I graduated a quarter early with lots of extra credits. At least I did it my way.......but wish someone had given me this idea.
We homeschooled through the 9th grade.
His high school years are being spent at college. He has lots of friends at church, many are in the same program and attend some of his classes at college. He doesn't seem to regret skipping high school. He comes and goes from classes and has so much more free time than his public high school friends.
We saw an oral surgeon (wisdom teeth extraction time, LOL) the other day and he asked my son why he hadn't started back to school yet.
My son explained the dual enrollment program to the oral surgeon, and the oral surgeon said, "You're so lucky. High school was the biggest waste of time for me...and I was valedictorian of my class."
When you say, " I don't see why anyone would." Does that mean you don't see why they would move onto bigger & better things by taking advantage of these kinds of tips? Or do you mean you don't see why anyone would move on, that they should stay in high school?
Admittedly, private school is best. But this would be a program for people who can't afford it. Maybe even some of the ones who could afford it might prefer to give their kids the same 4 year head start offered.
People would be able to afford it with a Voucher system, but oh wait the Democrats are against that!
Just think of what you could have accomplished if you had the same degree 3 or 4 years earlier rather than 1 quarter earlier.
One of the reasons why a lot of people don't go to grad school (myself included) is that they get burned out on so many years of schooling. I don't see much of a way to avoid the 4 years of trudging through college, the best you can do is shave a quarter here or there. But kids today can completely skip the wasted time of high school and avoid the burnout phase.
I can't see why anyone would have a problem with kids moving on more quickly if that is what the kids want to do.
That looks like a good program, very impressive. The fact that kids can take classes online is perfect. I'm glad your son is escaping the Sheldon Cauffield stage of modern existence.
Laura, I also hated high school, and college and grad school, and work. Private schools are just different ghettos.
you mean Holden Caulfield?
We haven't tried the online classes yet, but this summer he's thinking of taking one of the TV courses.
Our only hassle was the first year he was in the program he wasn't old enough to have his driver's license, so we had to transport him back and forth to the campus, and the first term we didn't plan it out right so he was back and forth a lot (2nd term we got smarter and booked all his classes on two days a week).
Once he got his driver's license, it was a cinch. This year his math classes are 5 hours, so he has to go to the campus almost everyday, but since he can drive himself, no problem!
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