McCain Vetoes Nuke Option

The National REview ^ | 01/05/2004 | smokeman

[OldFriend]

No, it's America's problem. It is the problem for our troops and for all the rest of us patriots.

[Popman]

Bingo

[CyberAnt]

Yes, I think you're correct! - but the total needed is still 51 - which is what I said.

[68 grunt]

I wonder if mcain spits or swallows?

[Labyrinthos]

Not so .. there are 55 repub Senators and Frist only needs 51 .. so McCain can go hang himself and keep his good standing with his liberal friends.

Are you sure? According to Senate Rule XXII, cloture of debate on a proposal to amend Senate Rules requires the consent of 2/3rds of the senators present and voting. If I'm reading the rule correctly, then all this talk about "going nuclear" is a bunch of crap because the Rats and Rinos can simply fillibuster the proposal to change the cloture rule.

[Spiff]

Are you sure? According to Senate Rule XXII, cloture of debate on a proposal to amend Senate Rules requires the consent of 2/3rds of the senators present and voting. If I'm reading the rule correctly, then all this talk about "going nuclear" is a bunch of crap because the Rats and Rinos can simply fillibuster the proposal to change the cloture rule.

Votes on Senate rules take place outside of the rules.

[CyberAnt]

My understanding was that "going nuclear" meant CHANGING THE RULE!

In order to CHANGE THE RULE - Frist only needs 51 votes. I've heard him explain it several times.

[You Dirty Rats]

Cheney would have no vote on what is an internal Senate matter.

He is President of the Senate. He gets a vote if the Senate is equally divided.

[Spiff]

Congressional Quarterly Reports RINO McCain will Vote Against Using 'Nuclear Option' to End Democrat Obstruction of Judicial Nominees

Todd Evans - South East Arizona Republican Club
1.5.2005

Tiny Tommy Daschle was targeted for defeat because of his leadership role in obstructing President Bush's judicial nominees. The former Senate Minority Leader lead the Democrats in unfairly and unconstitutionally filibustering the President's nominees for federal judiciary positions. He is now the "former" minority leader because John Thune defeated him in the 2004 election.

Emboldened by Daschle's stunning defeat, his newfound political capital from his election victory, and a slightly more conservative Senate, President Bush has announced that he will reforward all of his previously obstructed nominees. The new Senate, meeting for the first time this week, is debating a change to the filibuster rules which would lessen the Democrats ability to obstruct judicial nominations. This, despite the fact that the filibuster rule isn't supposed to apply to judicial nominees in the first place.

Congressional Quarterly reports today that Arizona Senator John McCain has come out and stated that he will side with the Democrats in voting against allowing the Republicans to use the so-called "nuclear option" to end the judicial appointment filibusters.

The nuclear option is simply this: One of the President's judicial nominations is brought to the Senate floor for a vote. Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist would make a point of order clarifying Senate rules that only a simple majority is needed for confirmation of a judicial nominee and that the 60-vote majority rule for legislation does not apply. The point of order is upheld by the presiding officer, Vice President Dick Cheney who also serves as President of the U.S. Senate. Then Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid would challenge the ruling. Frist would then move to table Reid's motion, ending debate on the matter. The motion gets tabled and then the Senate proceeds with an up or down vote to confirm the judicial nominee. If you blinked, you'd miss the whole thing.

Liberal Republican Senators John McCain and Chuck Hagel have in the past expressed misgivings about using the nuclear option. But, now McCain has admitted that he will side with the Democrats in allowing them to obstruct the President's judicial nominations and will vote with the Democrats against allowing the nuclear option. Apparently McCain holds his loyalty to his liberal friends across the aisle more important than his loyalty to his nation, his President, his party, and the Constitution.

Congressional Quarterly articles can only be read by subscribers. So a link to the actual article in which McCain admits his treason against his party is not available. National Review, however, is reporting about the contents of the CQ article.

[Labyrinthos]

Here's the relevant text of Senate Rule XXII (emphasis added):

2. Notwithstanding the provisions of rule II or rule IV or any other rule of the Senate, at any time a motion signed by sixteen Senators, to bring to a close the debate upon any measure, motion, other matter pending before the Senate, or the unfinished business, is presented to the Senate, the Presiding Officer, or clerk at the direction of the Presiding Officer, shall at once state the motion to the Senate, and one hour after the Senate meets on the following calendar day but one, he shall lay the motion before the Senate and direct that the clerk call the roll, and upon the ascertainment that a quorum is present, the Presiding Officer shall, without debate, submit to the Senate by a yea-and-nay vote the question:

"Is it the sense of the Senate that the debate shall be brought to a close?" And if that question shall be decided in the affirmative by three-fifths of the Senators duly chosen and sworn -- except on a measure or motion to amend the Senate rules, in which case the necessary affirmative vote shall be two-thirds of the Senators present and voting -- then said measure, motion, or other matter pending before the Senate, or the unfinished business, shall be the unfinished business to the exclusion of all other business until disposed of.

Thereafter no Senator shall be entitled to speak in all more than one hour on the measure, motion, or other matter pending before the Senate, or the unfinished business, the amendments thereto, and motions affecting the same, and it shall be the duty of the Presiding Officer to keep the time of each Senator who speaks. Except by unanimous consent, no amendment shall be proposed after the vote to bring the debate to a close, unless it had been submitted in writing to the Journal Clerk by 1 o'clock p.m. on the day following the filing of the cloture motion if an amendment in the first degree, and unless it had been so submitted at least one hour prior to the beginning of the cloture vote if an amendment in the second degree. No dilatory motion, or dilatory amendment, or amendment not germane shall be in order. Points of order, including questions of relevancy, and appeals from the decision of the Presiding Officer, shall be decided without debate.

After no more than thirty hours of consideration of the measure, motion, or other matter on which cloture has been invoked, the Senate shall proceed, without any further debate on any question, to vote on the final disposition thereof to the exclusion of all amendments not then actually pending before the Senate at that time and to the exclusion of all motions, except a motion to table, or to reconsider and one quorum call on demand to establish the presence of a quorum (and motions required to establish a quorum) immediately before the final vote begins. The thirty hours may be increased by the adoption of a motion, decided without debate, by a threefifths affirmative vote of the Senators duly chosen and sworn, and any such time thus agreed upon shall be equally divided between and controlled by the Majority and Minority Leaders or their designees. However, only one motion to extend time, specified above, may be made in any one calendar day.

If, for any reason, a measure or matter is reprinted after cloture has been invoked, amendments which were in order prior to the reprinting of the measure or matter will continue to be in order and may be conformed and reprinted at the request of the amendment's sponsor. The conforming changes must be limited to lineation and pagination.

No Senator shall call up more than two amendments until every other Senator shall have had the opportunity to do likewise.

Notwithstanding other provisions of this rule, a Senator may yield all or part of his one hour to the majority or minority floor managers of the measure, motion, or matter or to the Majority or Minority Leader, but each Senator specified shall not have more than two hours so yielded to him and may in turn yield such time to other Senators.

Notwithstanding any other provision of this rule, any Senator who has not used or yielded at least ten minutes, is, if he seeks recognition, guaranteed up to ten minutes, inclusive, to speak only.

After cloture is invoked, the reading of any amendment, including House amendments, shall be dispensed with when the proposed amendment has been identified and has been available in printed form at the desk of the Members for not less than twenty four hours.

[HonestConservative]

As president of the senate, he PRESIDES over it and can drop the hammer on it as a point of order and the filibuster is over. There need not be a tie.
There is no rule to change. Only to honor the constitution and precedent.
Seems simple doesn't it.
And it is that simple!
Frist hasn't brought the hammer down on his alleged Majority for support and he needs to get nasty on them.

[Liberty Valance]

President Bush should publicly ask Senator McCain why his judicial nominees aren't worthy of a simple, yes or no vote in the Senate. I'm sure McCain could explain, and the American people would love to hear, the nuances of why this can't be done.




I can dream, can't I?

[F16Fighter]

THIS is exactly where RINOism gets the GOP -- enemies from within.

[mowkeka]

And on what issues is he a Republican?
I forget...

[deport]

You are citing rules from the past. Here is what Senator Frist said in his speech regarding rule changes.......

Here's what he said about adopting rules of the 108th:

"But if my Democratic colleagues continue to filibuster judicial nominees, the Senate will face this choice. Fail to do its constitutional duty or reform itself and restore its traditions and do what the Framers intended. Right now we cannot be certain judicial filibusters will cease, so I reserve the right to propose changes to Senate Rule 22 and do not acquiesce in the carrying over all the Rules from the last Congress.

"As a public servant who has twice taken an oath to support the Constitution, I cannot stand idly by, nor should any of us, if the Senate fails to do its constitutional duty. We as United States Senators have our constitutional duty to offer the president advice and consent."

Thus he is reserving the right to visit rule changes is the democrats continue their obstruction....

Now the 'nuclear option' often mentioned is where a 'point of order' is raised with the Senate President. The President rules and if appealed it takes only 51 votes to sustain the ruling from the President.

[Labyrinthos]

I'm missing soemthing. Senate Rule VI states in relevant part: "... 2. The rules of the Senate shall continue from one Congress to the next Congress unless they are changed as provided in these rules." Rule XXII seems to suggest, however, that the Senate can fillibuster any proposed rule change unless debate is closed upon the 2/3rd vote of those Senators actually present and voting. I know what Frist has said, but just because a politician says something, doesn't make it true. What am I missing?

[Labyrinthos]

My reference to Rule VI should have been to Rule V.

[Calamari]

ok!

[deport]

At some point in the past [1975 I believe] when they changed the requirement from 67 to 60 votes to bring cloture and the Republicans were in opposition to it.... Sen. Byrd used some procedure to effect the change with only 51 votes...... that is the same thing Sen. Frist is talking about as I understand it. I can't give you details but it's been discussed and even Sen. Hatch wrote an article talking about using it not too long ago.

[deport]

The following is to the Hatch article.....

Click