[norton]

OK, so "the worst of the lot were Germany, France and Belgium" gives a pass to Portugal, Spain, Italy, and G.B.
Of course both Spain and Germany raised strong support from local nationals during two world wars and the UK left behind successes as well as failures.

Great Britain left no great support base behind in the United States and Spain left none behind in Mexico. You are invited to explain why these instances divert from the 'colonial curse' left upon the African continent.

To kingsurfer - hit the "spell" button, it works for me.

[Sthitch]

I did not mention Spain because we were discussing Africa, and frankly I forgot about Portugal, which I should not have, because its former colonies have been some of the biggest failures. Italy was not mentioned simply because I was referring to those countries that were "colonists", it is hard to say that Italy's invasion of Ethiopia was colonizing in the same vein as GB, Portugal, or any of the other Europeans had done earlier. Interestingly at the time Ethiopia was the one bright spot in Africa, and never reachieved that glory after the League of Nations abandoned it.

"Great Britain left no great support base behind in the United States and Spain left none behind in Mexico."

I never made the assertion that "love of country" had anything to do with the success of former colonies. I never even mentioned it. I will grant that those areas that left on peaceful terms have done very well, so have some that left on contentious terms. I do not think that the discussion of trying to compare the United States and Africa is germane to this discussion. When the Europeans colonized North America, they soon outnumbered the native populations, bringing with them Europeans with European ideals. In the African colonies the Europeans were always a minority in their colonies, so they were trying to convert the natives to their way of thinking. This is a much more difficult task. I would say that Mexico and Africa are less similar than Mexico and India. In Mexico and the rest of South America the Spanish left be a learned middle class similar to what GB did in India. None of these countries have been a particularly stellar success, but they also have not been resounding failures. Even in India's darkest days of Socialism it was in much better shape than most African nations (unless you were a member of one of the lowest castes, but that is a topic for another discussion).

I did not say that Colonialism itself was a curse on Africa, more the consequences of colonialism being removed from Africa became a curse, as none of the colonies were prepared for independence. There were no bureaucracies, or a middle class, both are necessary for stable society. As I pointed out Africa was not left with any industry. Now, would they have had any of these three things had colonization not occurred? Most likely not, so I am not saying that there was a 'colonial curse'. The reason why I had mentioned the "White Man's Burden" was that at the time it was given as a reason why Africa must be colonized, and the European nations that claimed to take on that burden did so only in words not in actions. Yes, they did send some missionaries to do the Lord's work, but not much beyond that.