Posted on 01/01/2005 11:45:46 AM PST by nanak
Please let me know if you need removed from this ping list.
Thanks!
______
FYI-ping
I don't know --- but Lopez Obrador makes far more sense than Vicente Fox ever has...
The "cabin boy" to whom I was referring was just reelected President of the USA.
Here, while lined up to get their complementary VIP tickets to the Second Bush Inaugural Ball, illegal aliens express their thanks to the USA, happy not to be back in Mexico, lest there be unrest there. When not gesturing to observers, the Bush-invited migrants discussed how they and their offspring would bring about a lasting conservative majority to all of American electoral politics, just as they have in California.
Many of those hated Indians and Mestisos are far more clever than Mexico's elite and middle class. Uh... most middle-class people are "mestizo" though that word really hasn't had any meaning since the early 19th century.
Mestiso can mean 80% or 10% Spanish --- the upper classes of Mexico are definitely more European --- the campesinos and Indians in Mexico do not have access to their country's vast wealth --- no matter how hard they're willing to work, which is why they're leaving by the millions. The middle classes come legally, the lower classes come illegally --- both ways it's a flood coming over that border. Mexico has a very classist system which is why the middle class is so small. It's interesting how a campesino can get to the USA and suddenly his family back in Mexico is living better than the average middle class family there which would never happen if he had stayed in Mexico working harder.
BTT
Seems Fox is controlling this country.
Sounds like an excellent plan! Lets do it!
Be sure to see this one!
******
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1312617/posts?page=4
How to be an illegal: Mexico government publishes guide to assist border crossers
WorldNetDaily ^ | 1/2/05 | WorldNetDaily
LOL !!!
You're correct that "Mestizo" can mean xx% Spanish, though it would mean any European. Your assertion that "Spanish" control the economy though is an understandable, common mistake. Yes, wealthier people tend to have more European ancestry, but Mexico is no different than anywhere else in the world... today's rich tend to be people who's parents and grandparents were also rich.
I'd add that the 19th century "criollos" (Mexican-born Europeans) are pretty much extinct as a separate group. Most of the "European" looking wealthy people are descended from 20th century immigrants (refugees from Franco and Hitler) who arrived with money and skills at a time Mexico was industrializing. And... the wealthiest ethnicity in Mexico are the "Lebanese" ... descendants of the large Palestinian, Lebanese, Syrian immigration in the 1920s... again people with money arriving in a country that had just gone through a revolution. Carlos Slim Heléu is the son of a Palestinian immigrant who made a sizable fortune buying up properties from "European" Mexicans leaving during the Revolution. Carlos turned a sizable fortune into Latin America's biggest one.
Spaniards -- from Spain -- are important in banking (Santander Sarafin and BBVA, the latter being Basque, are both Spanish controlled banks) and in the hotel business.
This is probably MORE than you wanted to know, but one thing that fascinates me about Mexico is it's immigrant history. In contrast to the U.S., people assimilate both culturally and ethnically. My neighhood here in Mexico City was popular with the less-wealthy WWII refugees. You'll see a few blonde, blue-eyed grand-parents sitting out on a sunday afternoon, but the grandkids look like everyone else in Mexico.
You're living in Mexico City now? I'd love to spend a day picking your brain. I'm fascinated about the wealthy in Mexico being Arab stock. I'd read about some of that in the long ago past, but didn't realize they were still as influential. I understand that many Mexicans are converting to Islam. What do you think?
WHAT???? The "Libanes" are Catholics or Orthodox. The only public Mosque in Mexico City is tiny, serving Sunni, Shi'ia and other sects. We forget that every country in the Americas, not just the United States, has immigrants, and I'm sure there are more Muslims than a few years ago, but the fastest growing religion is Buddism. That's a statistical quirk: there has been a sizable Korean immigration, and Buddism has gone from 0.001% to 0.005 percent, which is a HUGE statistical change.
I know all about the many ethnic groups of Mexico --- I had an Arab-Mexican room-mate and many of the Lebanese around here are the people with families on both sides of the border --- which is not as common as people sometimes think for hispanics. Here there are quite a few Chinese-mixed Mexicans and of course the pure-German ethnicity Mexicans belonging to the Mennonite colonies. But the sad thing is ---- the majority of the people --- the most Mexican of all --- the campesinos and Indians are denied any opportunity in Mexico. A fair number of them do just fine if they make it to the USA --- when no amount of hard work was ever going to get them anywhere in their own country. The massive rates of immigration speak volumes of their situation back home --- millions of people --- middle class and working poor alike --- don't leave a homeland where there is hope.
Selma Hayak, an Arab-Mexican.
Thanks for tolerating my ... um... "detour" into the weird and wacky world of Mexican ethnicity :-) One of my activities down here is explaining Mexico to outsiders, and pointing out that this is a complex society, just like any other big country. It's not just a simple "Indian" v. "pale-face" issue.
Anyway, I think you're right that social changes here -- and perhaps in the U.S. -- will be needed to halt the border run. What's intriguing about this exchange is that freepers are anti-socialists to the core, yet also anti-immigration, yet it's a socialist with the best plan to keep the people at home. Even weirder, one of "AMLO"s biggest supporters is Carlos Slim, the multi-billionaire.
The PRD is "socialist", but so is Tony Blair's Labour Party in Britain. What AMLO proposes isn't that radical -- farm assistance, rural services, old age pensions (something extemely successful here in Mexico City -- it's not a lot of money, but it eases the financial burden on families with elderly relations at home), more school finances.
PRD voters aren't looking for a worker's revolution, either. They're poor or middle-class people, which is where Carlos Slim comes in. He's no dummy, and his fortune comes from telecommunications, retail sales and restaurants. If poor people become middle-class, besides acquiring middle-class values like concern for education and home-ownership, they'll also buy phones and take the wife out to one of his restaurants on her birthday.
What's going to be interesting is watching how this forum, and our government responds. It's no secret that Fox, and PAN, received encouragement and assistance from the U.S., especially from corporate interests and the Republican Party. Given that PAN, and Fox, embody a lot of the same values as the Republicans, that's only natural. Now there's a political leader of a party with no counterpart in the U.S. (probably the closest politican to AMLO would be Lula da Silva in Brazil). Neither our corporate nor political establishment (nor Mexico's) is comfortable with AMLO, but his domestic program would make a lot of freepers very happy.
Strange world, huh?
bump^
I suspected this was the reason we have this open border;
a saftey valve for the Mexican govt.
PING;
Possible reason we have an open border;
a saftey valve for the Mexican govt?
hmmmmm...
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.